If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?

solgunsI feel a tremendous responsibility to write this article though I am a little apprehensive. Thinking about the possibility of rising up against our own government is a frightening thing for many of us. I am not Johnny Rambo and I will be the first to admit that I do not want to die. The reason I feel compelled to write this, however, is simply because I don’t think the average American is equipped with the facts. I feel that a lot of American citizens feel like they have no choice but to surrender their guns if the government comes for them. I blame traditional media sources for this mass brainwash and I carry the responsibility of all small independent bloggers to tell the truth. So my focus today is to lay out your constitutional rights as an American, and let you decide what to do with those rights.

About a month ago I let the “democracy” word slip in a discussion with a fellow blogger. I know better. Americans have been conditioned to use this term. It’s not an accurate term and it never has been a correct term to describe our form of government. The truth is that the United States of America is a constitutional republic. This is similar to a democracy because our representatives are selected by democratic elections, but ultimately our representatives are required to work within the framework of our constitution. In other words, even if 90% of Americans want something that goes against our founding principles, they have no right to call for a violation of constitutional rights.

If you are religious you might choose to think of it this way… Say that members of your congregation decide that mass fornication is a good thing. Do they have the right to change the teachings of your God? The truth is the truth. It doesn’t matter how many people try to stray from it. Did I just compare our founders to God? In a way I did, but please note that I am not trying to insult anyone. For the purpose of the American Government our constitution and founders who wrote it are much like God is to believers. It is the law. It is indisputable.

Our founders did not want a “democracy” for they feared a true democracy was just as dangerous as a monarchy. The founders were highly educated people who were experienced in defending themselves against tyranny. They understood that the constitution could protect the people by limiting the power of anyone to work outside of it much better than a pure system of popularity. A system of checks and balances was set up to help limit corruption of government and also the potential for an “immoral majority” developing within the American People. We have forgotten in this country that we are ultimately ruled by a constitution.

Why is a democracy potentially just as dangerous as a monarchy? Let’s look at something that Benjamin Franklin said because it answers that question more fully and succinctly than I can.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -Benjamin Franklin

Even 230+ years ago our founders were perceptive enough to realize that democracy was a dangerous form of government. How so? Because the citizens of a country can become just as corrupt as any government. We have seen evidence of this throughout history. Ask Native Americans and African-Americans if this population can become corrupt.

I think in 2012 we are seeing evidence of what Franklin was trying to tell us. Just because a majority of people may support certain ideas it does not mean that those ideas are just. In simple terms, just because most Americans love our president and voted for him, it does not mean that he has the power to go against our constitutional rights.

Next I’d like to review the text of the second amendment. It is very clear. This is the law of this land. So when Senator Feinstein or President Obama talk about taking your guns, you need to think about something. Are they honoring their sworn oath to uphold the constitution?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

supremeThis is a pretty clear statement. The fact is that it took 232 years for the Supreme Court to even rule on this amendment because it has never been successfully challenged. In 2008 a case of Columbia v. Heller the Supreme Court ruled that a handgun ban in Washington D.C. was unconstitutional. One also has to take this into consideration. The Supreme Court supports your right to own guns. If you want to research this decision further you can start here.

For those who try to debate the spirit of the 2nd amendment, they are truly no different from people who will try to take Biblical quotes out of context to try to support their immoral decisions. The founders were very clear on the intent of the 2nd amendment. Let me share a few quick quotes here:

The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -Thomas Jefferson

Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference – they deserve a place of honor with all that is good. -George Washington

The Constitution shall never be construed….to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -Samuel Adams

founderspicI could find hundreds of quotes like these. This country was built on the right to bear arms. It was built on the rights of an individual to bear arms, regardless of what his government or neighbor happened to think. This is crystal clear. Ironically the people who voice their opinions against this right have their free speech protected by your guns. Without guns in this country, all other amendments become null and void, simply because “We the People” will lose our power of enforcement.

We need to keep this in mind as our “representatives” try to push gun bans. I don’t care if 99% of people are in support of gun bans (which is far from the case), it is a violation of our constitutional rights, plain and simple.

A constitutional republic protects the rights of the individual even when their ideas are very much  in the minority. If I were the only person in America who believed in the 2nd amendment, I would still be within my rights to call upon it. You would all think I was insane and possibly celebrate if I was gunned down, but in the end I would be the only true American among us.

Our framers were very clear on this. If my government comes to take my guns, they are violating one of my constitutional rights that is covered by the 2nd amendment.

soulonfireIt is not my right, at that point, but my responsibility to respond in the name of liberty. What I am telling you is something that many are trying to soft sell, and many others have tried to avoid putting into print, but I am going to say it. The time for speaking in code is over.

If they come for our guns then it is our constitutional right to put them six feet under. You have the right to kill any representative of this government who tries to tread on your liberty. I am thinking about self-defense and not talking about inciting a revolution. Re-read Jefferson’s quote. He talks about a “last resort.” I am not trying to start a Revolt, I am talking about self-defense. If the day for Revolution comes, when no peaceful options exist, we may have to talk about that as well. None of us wants to think about that, but please understand that a majority can not take away your rights as an American citizen. Only you can choose to give up your rights.

Congress could pass gun ban legislation by a 90%+ margin and it just would not matter. I think some people are very unclear on this. This is the reason we have a Supreme Court, and though I do not doubt that the Supreme Court can also become corrupt, in 2008 they got it right. They supported the constitution. It does not matter what the majority supports because America is not a democracy. A constitutional republic protects the rights of every single citizen, no matter what their “elected servants” say. A majority in America only matters when the constitution is not in play.

I just wrote what every believer in the constitution wants to say, and what every constitutional blogger needs to write. The truth of the matter is that this type of speech is viewed as dangerous and radical or subversive, and it could gain me a world of trouble that I do not want. It is also the truth. To make myself clear I will tell you again. If they come for your guns it is your right to use those guns against them and to kill them. You are protected by our constitution.

Most of the articles I am reading on the subject are trying to give you clues without just coming out and saying it. I understand that because certain things in this country will get you on a list that you don’t want to be on. I may well be on that list. This blog is small and growing so I may not be there yet, but I have dreams. I also have my own list of subversives and anyone who attempts to deny my constitutional rights is on that list.

I am not the “subversive” here, it is the political representatives who are threatening to take away my inalienable rights. If they come to take my guns and I leave a few of them wounded or dead, and I somehow survive, I have zero doubt that I will spend a long time in prison and may face an execution. But I would much rather be a political prisoner than a slave.

If I go down fighting then I was not fighting to harm these human beings. I was simply defending my liberty and yours. It is self-defense and it is what our country was built on. We won our freedom in self-defense. We would not be ruled by a tyrannical government in the 1770’s and we will not be ruled in 2012 by a tyrannical government. There is no difference.

This is a case of right and wrong. As of now the 2nd amendment stands. It has never been repealed. If Feinstein or Barack have a problem with the constitution then they should be removed from office. They are not defending the constitution which they have sworn an oath to protect. It is treasonous to say the least. They would likely say the same about me, but I have the constitution, the founders, and the supreme court on my side. They only have their inflated egos.

I am not writing this to incite people. I am writing this in hopes that somehow I can make a tiny difference. I have no idea how many of my neighbors have the will to defend their constitutional rights. 2%? 20%? I am afraid that 20% is a high number, unfortunately. When push comes to shove many people may give up and submit to being ruled. I believe that our government is banking on this.

What I do know is that this country was founded by people who had balls the size of Texas and Patriotic Americans take shit off of no one, especially our own government. For evidence of that, you might research the Revolutionary War. My question is how many Patriots are left?

I would hope that our officials come to realize that, regardless of our numbers, we still exist because they are calling Patriotic Americans to action. They are making us decide if we want to die free or submit to their rule. I can not tell you where you should stand on that. I do know that it may make the difference between living a life of freedom or slavery.

thinkingYou must start thinking about this because I believe that the day is coming soon and I personally believe it has already been planned. Not all conspiracy theories are hogwash. They may throw down the gauntlet soon and my suggestion is that you prepare yourself to react.

I mean no disrespect to our elected officials but they need to understand that “We the People” will not be disarmed. If they proceed then it is they that are provoking us and we will act accordingly. We are within our rights to do so.

For those who are in support of taking the guns, you need to ask yourself a very important question, and I am not just talking about the politicians, because if you support them, you have chosen your side.

Are you willing to die to take my guns?

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IMPORTANT UPDATE From Dean Garrison!!! When this post originally went viral I was trying to answer every single comment and that lasted for almost 48 hours. Then I came to grips with the fact that I am human and I can’t do it. If for no other reason I value my family and I can’t steal time from them to constantly be on the site. I want you all to know that I appreciate your support and good debate whether you agree or disagree. I also want to thank each and every American Patriot who has made the honorable choice to serve their country. Anyone who wants to repost this on their blog or website is also given permission to do so, so long as nothing is changed in the text of the article, and a link is provided back to this site. Again, thank you so much. I am humbled. It’s now 16 days later and this is still the most popular post on our blog. Keep fighting for what is right. We must stand united. -Dean Garrison 1-20-13

About Dean Garrison

Dean Garrison is a husband and father of six, who faithfully pursues the American Dream. He has been MOSTLY self-employed for the last 20+ years and has been a top earner, executive and leader for several direct sales companies.
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5,162 Responses to If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?

  1. GREG says:

    this isnt just about taking our guns this just where it starts so when the govErnment goes further on taking control of our lifves and freedoms we wil be unable to defend ourselfs the sandy hook was definetly a very bad thing.Very upsetting and heart breaking thing I pray for the families daily.
    but the government is just using this simply to move foward on their goals the truth is that thier thousands of thing they can do to save lives if that was thier tru concern DO you know how many children died from cancer this year,how many children starved to death how many were abused.Thousands and thousands more and these are things that can be changed but thats not the govs concern,saving lives its slowly and quietly taking control of how we live where we live and what we do. AND IF WE CAN DEFEND OUR SELFS THE WONT BE ABLE TO MOVE FOWARD WITH THIER ULTIMATE GOAL.PLEASE IF YOU REALLY WANT TO PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN AND WANT THEM TO HAVE A FUTURE USE YOUR RIGHTS PROTECT YOUR SELF AND SPEAK UP AND DONT ROLL OVER, I GAURENTEE THE ODDS OF ONE OF YOUR LOVED ONES BEING GUNNED DOWN BY AN ASAULT RIFFLE OR HAND GUN ARE WAY SMALLER THAN THEM NOT GETTING PROPER HEALTH CARE OR PROPER EDUCATION OR SURVIVING A CATASTROPHY AND BEING ABLE TO DEFEND THEM SELFS. YOU HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF BEING STRUCK BY A HAMMER AND THEN MALPRACTICE AT THE HOSPITAL THEN BEING SHOT BY AN ASSUALT RIFFLE. THEY SAY WE DONT NEED ASSUALT RIFFLES BUT TRY AND TELL THEM THEY DONT NEED MULTI MILLION DOLLAR HOUSES AND MILLION DOLLAR BONUSES OR VACTION HOMES IN MARTHA,S VINEYARD.

    • Jon says:

      when i joined the marine corps I took an oeth to DEFEND the constitution and ill always keep that oath no matter what and that includes the 2nd admendent they will not take my guns not now not ever ,,,i served this country for 31 years and until now was proud to do so not in the face of the misdeeds of this government i will fight.

      • Mocus says:

        Defending the Constitution is one thing, but nobody seems to know how to use it. Getting the people who abuse it out of office is the way to go. If Obama is shown to not qualify for the Presidency before the time fixed for the beginning of the next term, he won’t be able to be sworn in and do what we’re afraid of.. Using the Twentieth Amendment is the way to go,, but the window of opportunity is closing fast.

        Amendment XX – … If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; …

        As they say, use it or lose it.

      • bruce says:

        And as a “Joe Blow” with no formal training but a shared love of country and to honor all those who died PROTECTING THE U.S.CONSTITUTION I too will fight and back-up others if they come for our guns.

        • Fellow Citizen says:

          This video needs to be seen……….

          • LaDonna Adkins says:

            You go Keith Morgan, we have the right to defend ourselves from criminals and the government! I am sure back in the day the homes had a mussket riffle and so we need to be able to have something close to what the government has in case they infringe upon our rights.

          • Jim Chandler says:

            Keith Morgan is an awesome speaker for gun owners. I wouldn’t want to debate him and be on the other side. It was obvious, like most anti gun people, that they are totally ignorant of the state of our society and live in a fantasy world where everything will be perfect with another do nothing law, that will make ALL guns disappear .

          • TR Harris says:

            There are a few of us who are 100% behind you. I think more than you know. I am 70 and have no fear of dying. Nobody will take even one of my guns without a serious fire fight first. I hate to think one of our local police would come but if they do I hope they know the welcome mat will not be out. I think as you say…..I will have a list of my own and that list is first.

      • Metal52 says:

        Semper Fi, Brother!! I took that oath as well and plan on defending the Constitution, no matter the cost.

      • Nina says:

        Right on, Jon. I have several family members who are or were in the military – Marines, Navy, Army – and we are ALL with you! If this government and its leaders become so corrupt as to step on and push aside the Constitution in order to further their own agendas, I hope and pray that our current military heros do not obey any orders to fire on their own civilians, Americans, that they are sworn to protect. I also hope and pray that the military commanders uphold their oath to defend the Constitution and protect our American citizens by never giving any such order. If told to do so by this administration, it will be up to them to stand on the Constitution and protect our rights as granted to us over 230 years ago.

    • Holly Golightly says:

      I think you need to worry less about your loss of freedom than your horrible spelling and grammar. Didn’t make it passed the 4th grade…did we?

      • Oswald Bastable says:

        Rejoice fellow patriots! The grammar nazi has arrived to put us all in our places.

      • Fellow Citizen says:

        Don’t forget hip/hop LA RIOTS. LEO’s did not offer any protection. Well armed citizens fought off rioters. I remember the riots in the late sixties. How about Katrina – Can’t rely on the GOV to protect us.

      • DJ Grims says:

        Gee, spelling and grammar must be very important. Well, it is. But freedom is definitely a more valuable item. So it was ‘horrible’, but you still understood

      • Kathy says:

        Seriously? Grammar & spelling are more important than freedom?
        While I may not agree with all of the arguments made by previous posters, your pathetic response serves no purpose at all.
        Do not confuse “uneducated” with stupid.
        For example – while you apparently claim to be educated; you are most definitely stupid if you think bad grammar/spelling are more important than freedom.

      • legion7 says:

        You spelled “past” wrong, moron…

      • Captain Bob says:

        Before you ‘throw rocks” check on yourself. Proper word is “past”, not “passed.” So I guess WE made it PAST the 4th grade but YOU didn’t….

        • Matt says:

          I love it when people criticize and then make the exact same mistake. I guess they didn’t “passed” the 4th grade either

        • Sammy Davis says:

          who gives a shit….its this type of stupid drivel that pisses me off…spend more time hearing and reading the INTENT of what is said and not the grammatically correctness of intrinsic verbiage….is your INTENT to show how smart you people are? We don’t give a shit. So if you can’t add to the validity of the discussion, or pertinent content then just shut the hell up.

          • Sammy Davis says:

            oops I meant grammatical correctness…my bad….not that I give a shit

          • Gere Stokoe says:

            Right on!

            • JanainMontana says:

              Hahahahaa! I think its outrageously funny that y’all are now proofreading your comments (and hers). I’s got a Ph.D. (no lie) and I’d love nothing more than to write a book like The Color Purple or Trainspotting, because we all know there’s inherent value in life stories, and regardless of someone’s spelling or grammar. Now why don’t we all just STFU and go clean our guns, hmmm?

      • Tom Calvano says:

        Holly, that would be “Didn’t make it PAST the 4th grade…” how about you?? 3rd??

      • scratch says:

        past, not passed

      • Mike says:

        Passed????? 4th graders know past from passed!!!

      • Dallas says:

        What a moron this isn’t English class

      • Jan Pentecost says:

        People like you who don’t want to see the truth but would rather distract and deter……need to look less at the spelling and read the message!! You shoot the messenger and throw away the message.

      • Brother Steve says:

        Ms. Golightly, it is not “make it passed.” The correct word is “past.”

      • Adam says:

        I think you intended to say “..past the fourth grade..”. It’s called a homophone. By saying “did we?”, are you incuding yourself?

      • dogpatchnews says:

        You, madam clearly have no knowledge of internet etiquette. Never assume English is the person’s first language. Typical liberal, can’t engage on the facts so make a personal attack.

      • Dennis G says:

        ..and again, the guns have given you your right to try and humiliate another. You may be a word-smith” but are short in realizing that our Founding Fathers ALSO CREATED The WORLDS 1st public EDUCATION, it is that same FREE education that you received & that use to try to make yourself feel superior another that has “Served” & helped provide your the right to do it! This Free Public Education IN THE BEGINNING taught our Nations new Citizens their RIGHTS under this ‘CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC’…to ensure EVERYONE kept pressure on thier Government…so THAT the Republic would survive.
        Today…I believe, most are like you. The Majority of our Citizens have little understanding of the Constitution…a fault of our FREE education gone bad!

      • TR Harris says:

        Doan need to spell. Jes NEED TO SHOOT STRAIGHT ms puke puddle

      • Sylvia A. says:

        Oh come on Holly! These people are speaking from their hearts and are worth listening too. No matter their spelling or grammer. Do you have to find fault with that? Not everyone has the same opportunities as you. Count your blessings that these are some very good people who love their country and are willing to uphold the constitution. And many of them fought to give you the right to criticize. I love my country and the good people who fight to protect it. And I sure don’t want the government to ruin it!

    • DJ Grims says:

      Wow. Very well said. Thank you.

    • John Volz says:

      On Jan. 11, I created a White House petition telling the President to not use Executive Orders to enact any gun control legislation, as it will result in an insurrection. It needs to get 150 signatures to get posted and searchable on their site, and as of this writing it needs 17 more. Please sign it and pass it on. It started out longer, but it’s as long as the gov’s website allows… Here’s the link – http://wh.gov/Pesj

    • Sammy Davis says:

      There are a few important facts we the people need to be aware of. The current government is following THEIR constitution because its not the original one.

      Any laws the government tries to pass on us as citizens of the United States of America, (NOT citizens of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA), are fraudulent and unlawful; not to be confused with legal vs illegal…its different. Obama and past presidents since 1871 have pledged an allegiance to the private corporation of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, NOT the free Republic United States of America.

      The corporate government of the UNITED STATES has no jurisdiction or authority in ANY state of the Republic beyond the District of Columbia.

      The date is February 21, 1871 and the Forty-First Congress is in session. I refer you to the “Acts of the Forty-First Congress,” Section 34, Session III, chapters 61 and 62. On this date in the history of our nation, Congress passed an Act titled: “An Act To Provide A Government for the District of Columbia.” This is also known as the “Act of 1871.” What does this mean? Well, it means that Congress, under no constitutional authority to do so, created a separate form of government for the District of Columbia, which is a ten mile square parcel of land.

      Incidentally, this corporate constitution does not benefit the Republic. It serves only to benefit the corporation. It does nothing good for you or me — and it operates outside of the original Constitution. Instead of absolute rights guaranteed under the “organic” Constitution, we now have “relative” rights or privileges.

      Registration’ of anything transfers superior ownership to the entity accepting the registration. Once an item has been registered, you are no longer the OWNER (even though you will still be paying for the item), but instead you become the KEEPER. This includes cars, houses, children (who become ‘wards of the state’ by virtue of a birth registration), etc. (‘regis …’ = handing ownership to The Crown … which, by the way, is the British Crown in Temple Bar, and NOT Elizabeth II)

      -In all cases you are always being OFFERED A SERVICE – which includes ‘benefits’ – in the form of privileges. You are always fully entitled to waive such services, and of course you will also be waiving the attendant benefits, as you so choose. Your choice is – ultimately – to either assert your (inalienable) Rights, or accept (revocable) privileges. (i.e. Do you want to be a licensed driver, or a natural human being with the right to travel?)

      With the surrender of our gold in 1933, the People essentially surrendered their law. This will be the same thing if we willingly give up our guns. Our REAL history has been hidden from us. This is the way Roman Civil Law works — and our form of governance today is based upon Roman Civil Law and Admiralty/Maritime Law — better known as the “Divine Right of Kings” and “Law of the Seas”, respectively. Roman Civil Law was fully established in the original colonies even before our nation began and is also known as private international law.

      The government which was created for the District of Columbia via the Act of 1871 operates under Private International Law, and not Common Law, which was the law of the Constitutional Republic. This is very important to note since it impacts all Americans in concrete ways. You must recognize that private international law is only applicable within the District of Columbia and NOT in the other states of the Union. The various arms of the corporation are known as “departments” such as the Judiciary, Justice and Treasury. You recognize those names? Yes, you do! But they are not what you assume them to be. These “departments” all belong to the corporation known as THE UNITED STATES. They do NOT belong to you and me under the corporate constitution and its various amendments that operate outside of the Constitutional Republic. I refer you to the UNITED STATES CODE (note the capitalization, indicating the corporation, not the Republic) Title 28 3002 (15) (A) (B) (C). It is stated unequivocally that the UNITED STATES is a corporation [see note]. Realize, too, that the corporation is not a separate and distinct entity from the government. It IS the government. YOUR government. This is extremely important. I refer to this as the “corporate empire of the UNITED STATES,” which operates under Roman Civil Law outside of the real Constitution.

      For further explanation please go to http://spoonfedtruth.ucoz.com and http://spoonfedtruth.ucoz.com/index/the_u_s_corporation/0-25

      We have to stand up and fight against these unlawful acts which the corporate government is attempting to stick us with. Our current politicians are corrupt with about as much conscience as a dot on this post. Politicians and actors have one main thing i common, they’re both professional liars.

  2. kevin says:

    There is something else all of you should be aware of there is a family in Deming nm that had there lives stold from them by the federal government, they ran a sting on them, they owned a gun shop the feds use a cartel member, drug dealer, killer,and lair, to sting them they have been in jail for a year,the feds took all there money guns home cars trucks everything they owned all charges have been dropped against them ,but now the feds are trying to nail them with falseifing fed docs. So basically they want to make it so they well never beable to own guns again because of a felony charge and to top it off there are laws in place that says the fed can keep all there belongings and money,they have wrecked these peoples lives and stold there money there retirement is gone home guns everything they worked for over nothing I would not blame them if they went to war with those bastards can anyone out there help these folks get there things back? The Reese family from Deming new Mexico, new deal guns. These folks are good honest people that were caught in feds cross hairs for made up charges using the Mexican drug cartel wtf.

    • Holly Golightly says:

      Looks like Greg is not alone in the inability to spell and use english properly. Ah, the uneducated masses…this is my greatest fear.

      • Oswald Bastable says:

        Strange, since it is they who are educated beyond their intelligence in government who are the greatest threat.

        • Brad says:

          Holly, have you ever heard the old adage “Better to be silent and thought the fool rather than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.”?

          You have tried twice now to “zing” someone else for spelling and grammar mistakes and both times you have committed exactly what you profess to hate. Darling, you had better stop while you are behind. And then go back to school and pay closer attention this time.

          NICE TRY!! And a big FAIL!!!!!!

          • madre41596 says:

            You are basically doing what you accuse Holly of. I think that its obnoxious and deflective to correct grammar but its just as pathetic to slap yourself on the back and tell yourself how clever you are when you think you ‘ve made some clever remark.

            • Oswald Bastable says:

              HA! The arch deflector complaining of deflection.

              Now that’s rich!

            • Brad says:

              Sweetheart, you do not want to go there… I am pointing out her hypocrisy, and you are being the jerk. If she had done it once and then stopped when people pointed it out, it would have been over, but she continued and made the same mistake again. You are just being ignorant and argumentative.

              It is people like you who let others such as liberals play their little games unchallenged that encourages them to continue. When someone who is acting like a jerk is challenged, they will hopefully think twice before doing it again. At the very least, they will know that they do not have free reign to attack without a response. The way you are acting now, if the fate of the 2nd amendment depended upon you, we could all kiss our guns goodbye.

              I am always civil and will even let the first incident slide by, but just as another old adage goes… “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”

              When you decide to champion someone, it would be a good idea to reflect upon your choices before you respond. In this case, I believe that silence would have been your better choice!

      • Alex W, says:

        In the post directly above this one, you wrote “…Didn’t make it passed the 4th grade…”. I would like to point out the correct form would be PAST. Also, English is a proper noun, you idiot. Those “uneducated masses”? You’re one of them.

      • Sherri says:

        Get a life Holly! You have no more education than anyone else, but you’ve got some nerve! Better to remain silent and let them think your a fool, than to open your mouth, (or keyboard) and remove all doubt!

        • Oswald Bastable says:

          For Holly’s sake…just so she doesn’t have to come back and correct you, it’s “you’re a fool”. Wouldn’t want her to have to come back and smite you Sherri. 🙂

          • Don Harned says:

            Also, after the ‘you’ve’ the word got is not necessarily correct. But who cares? Not me. Holly is showing her stupidity well, tonite. Oops!

          • Dave says:

            When does English trump our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS? I believe that is what is being dicussed here NOT ENGLISH OR SPANISH OR GERMAN OR ANY OTHER LANGUAGE! Get back to real discusion RIGHTS that were granted us by the CONSTITUTION to protect YOU!

        • Ronnie Tillerson says:

          i find it very interesting that what was supposed to be a discussion on gun rights has to a degree, turned into a English grammer lesson. It seems that when “we” are at a loss of how to defend of put forth an argument, either for or against a particular issue in this country, “we” look for any evidence to prove the speaker or writer to be ignorant (sp?…don’t have spell check). Debate is about facts; discussions are about opinions. This thread is both. Everyone is not a writer, and typing and gramtical skills obviously vary, but so what? These are not the issue. I am interested in thooughtful and factual discussion of the issue at hand, and couldn’t possibly care less if someone said it or spelled it “right’. BTW….not aimed at you Sherri, just where I decided to comment…..

      • pink cheeks says:

        oh, holly;; STFU…… is that clear enough for you?

      • kevin says:

        Its OK holly go lightly, yes I didn’t go to college,uneducated not really,I have traveled all over the world for work and have seen and learned many different things I make more money than most college grads,but you on the other hand are educated and still ignorant an narrow minded the liberal indoctrination centers have taught you well. So you read my post and missed the point all you saw was bad spelling .

      • Jan Pentecost says:

        If your greastest fear is….spelling…..I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes for any reason. Why don’t you offer some substance rather than feel like you are better than thou with your spell checks?? People may be able to spell and us proper sentence structure….and that is their claim to fame……..and????? Why are you here? Or are you officially the internet spelling monitor?? Oh, I get it….Gore invented the internet and hired you to make sure all T’s are crossed and I’s are dotted….now I get it!!

      • Ravel says:

        How much does it pay to be a profesional troll, Holly? Your aim is to distract and detract from the current discussion.

        • SilentKnight says:

          Exactly. She’s here to distract from the real conversation. Just ignore her and move on, People. Yes, I intentionally capitalized “People”, as in “We, The People”. Now get over it and let’s talk about the issue – not spelling, nor grammar. I’d bet that 99% of us really don’t care about those things. We just want to talk about the article. So ignore all this non-relevant crap, and talk about the issues, whether it be rife with misspellings, or utilizing perfect English. Doesn’t matter.

    • Rivenburg says:

      read the supressed book: unintended consequences.
      It addresses this issue exactly.

  3. Pingback: James Yeager is a Disgrace ... VIDEO - Page 3

  4. I will never give up my guns

  5. jeff says:

    well said my fellow TRUE american !! jeff at longliveliberty@yahoo.com

  6. Moogie says:

    This is what I believe: Barack Obama is the best thing that has ever happened to you and the gun industry. I bet you have never felt so alive, so full of purpose and righteous indignation. So someone plants this idea that Barack Obama is coming after your guns and gun sales skyrocket. I bet the advertisers on wnd.com and insecure white guy gazette are loving the money and the page clicks. You are no less indoctrinated then any of us that have a belief system. I kinda wish I held stock in a gun company.. Need a boost just plant a rumor and have a portion of our country running to stock pile ammo and guns? Whip up some fear, feed into the amygdala and race bait and get everyone whipped into a frenzy. Well played.

    • Oswald Bastable says:

      Yes, but then, you’re not terribly smart, are you moogie.

    • Dean says:

      You been living under a rock Moogie? Wake up and smell the coffee! This isn’t a rumor! These are outright threats! It’s all over the so-called “News”, that you no doubt believe to be true! This is straight from the Lame Stream Media!

    • I was wondering how long it would take you to throw in the race card. It never fails with you self righteous big government big mouths. And its usually, more than not, a black person who uses the race card. “MOOGIE” does sorta sound like a black name. What do you think ? Sure does to me. Where you from, Chicago, Detroit, DC? Your boy’ obama hasn’t been sworn in yet. I don’t think I would count on him doing anything just yet.
      A bunch of us (rednecks to you) are going to be getting in some target practice tomorrow at the firing range. Bubba gonna bring a dandy little AK-47, and BillyBob is bringing his BMG .50 cal. sniper rifle. Theres are rumors that a couple guys are gonna show up with their Browning Automatic Rifles. Sounds like fun don’t it? Hope you can make it, we’ll sure miss not seeing you there. oH OK, Moose said he is gonna set up some moving targets in the morning. We all really like moving targets.

      • Moogie says:

        I am from metro Detroit. I am a 42 year old white middle class white woman. I never once mentioned southern stereotypes. I,ve got the michigan militia and Ted nugent.

        • Oswald Bastable says:

          My condolences for Detoilet…how’s that democratic/union/0bama representation working out for your fair city?

          Congrats on the militia and Ted…they may save MI yet.

        • Southern stereotypes get it right. Kennesaw Georgia-
          In 1982, the Kennesaw City Council unanimously passed a law requiring heads of households to own at least one firearm with ammunition.

          The ordinance states the gun law is needed to “protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants.”

          Then-councilman J.O. Stephenson said after the ordinance was passed, everyone “went crazy.”

          “People all over the country said there would be shootings in the street and violence in homes,” he said. “Of course, that wasn’t the case.”

          In fact, according to Stephenson, it caused the crime rate in the city to plunge.

          Kennesaw Historical Society president Robert Jones said following the law’s passage, the crime rate dropped 89 percent in the city, compared to the modest 10 percent drop statewide.

          “It did drop after it was passed,” he said. “After it initially dropped, it has stayed at the same low level for the past 16 years.”

          Mayor Leonard Church was not in office when the law was passed, but he said he is a staunch supporter of it.

          “You can’t argue with the fact that Kennesaw has the lowest crime rate of any city our size in the country,” said Church, who owns a denture-making company in Kennesaw.

    • Tom Pean says:

      Was my post to Moogie removed? If so, Why?

    • Jim Chandler says:

      You are right. Obama and Feinstein have sold more semi automatic rifles and ammo in the last 4 years than in the history of the industry.BUT, it is not a rumor. He and she have openly stated that their purpose is to register and then cause the confiscation of All guns. Their words, not mine. Why has there been no mass murders at gun shows if it is the guns that are the problem??? There were 5 in Ohio last weekend and every weekend. I have been going to them for 40 years. No one has ever been killed. I own some cabins in the Hocking hills of Ohio about 45 miles SE of Columbus. You come down for a few days and I will let you have a cabin if you will shoot with my wife and I. We will give you safety training and show you that it is a legitimate sport and a lot of fun. The FBI statistics say that 1/2 of 1% of all guns are used in crimes. I don’t care what you are talking about, do you really believe that 99.5% of honest, safe gun owners should be punished for what is done with 1/2 of 1% of guns. If it was your hobby, would you not feel put upon by being punished for the wrong doing of such a small percentage. Over 3 million times a year, people use guns to ligitimatly defend themselves and their families. That is never reported by the press because it would hurt their agenda. Imagine how many more people would be hurt or killed every year if those 3 million [reported] legal uses were not available. Look at England’s statistics. After they outlawed guns for honest people their violent crime rate soared. Many countries warn you before going to England because it is considered the most dangerous country in Europe and one of the most dangerous in the world. Until gun confiscation, British police never carried guns. Now the crime is so violent that they have to carry guns. The most dangerous cities in the U.S. are the cities with the harshest gun control. That is because that criminals don’t pay attention to laws. The sheep are surrounded by wolves with no way to deter them. By the time the police get there, they just fill out a report as to what happened. The damage is done.
      The safest place you will ever be in your life is at a gun show, in a gun store, or with gun people. There are idiots in every group but overall we are the salt of the earth and the best bunch of people you will ever know. Oh, and by the way, we would die for you and your family as well as our own. We roll that way.

      • lgwatson says:

        Excellent post.

      • Mark Stockdale says:

        Utter bollocks as we say in England. The violent crime rate in the US is higher than the UK. Your media can’t get the figures correct. You have a violent crime rate of 2,250/100K of population, figures from bureau of justice, your lower FBI figures only count more serious violent crime. The quoted UK figures count all violent crime. Compare apples with apples. The UK is around the 2,000/100K http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales
        Roughly speaking violent crime is higher in the US but not by much. So violence in our countries is depressingly high. On the other hand your homicide rate is 4 times higher, I wonder if guns have anything to do with that?

        • Brad says:

          Wrong! Just like you said, compare apples to apples. You need to look at deaths caused by people using guns. And then subtract those deaths that were justifiable homicides by civilians and also those by law enforcement and the numbers get much lower. A recent FBI report (admittedly comparing against “assault rifles”) shows that more deaths are caused by clubs, knifes and blunt objects than with rifles.

          Then take a look at how many of those deaths were gang against gang (As far as I am concerned they are doing all of us a favor) or criminal against criminal. Gun laws would do nothing to prevent those. And you will have a more accurate picture of gun deaths.

        • who are you? one of Peirs Morgan’s gangster buddies?

    • Don Harned says:

      ‘Your’ President is responsible for the gun sales is very correct. Isn’t he wonderful? NOT!
      Maybe he has stock in a gun company especially the one that manufactured the guns he sent to Mexico.

      • madre41596 says:

        if George Bush was my president then you can deal that Barack Obama is yours. You are entitled to your guns, but not your own version of the outcome of our countrys elections.

        • Oswald Bastable says:

          George Bush did not routinely order the deaths of American citizens via drone strike, without trial or conviction though, now did he? Nor did George Bush order the smuggling of guns to Mexico, without the knowledge of the Mexican government, guns that have, to date, been shown to have killed over 200 Mexicans and two border patrol agents…did he? Are you happy with your murderous President’s actions madre?

  7. Dean says:

    The sad thing is that most Americans are not informed enough to realize that the true enemy to our way life is not in the Middle East but right here on our own soil! None of those foreigners are a true threat to us! The people that want to change our way life forever are right here, and we see them everyday! These criminals despise our Constitution and have incrementally passed laws that are not laws at all when challenged with the Constitutional Authority! These cretins think we are all weak and stupid, as they worked tirelessly for decades to assure that is the case! These traitors are criminals and have no respect for their fellow countrymen and most of them are useful idiots that are important for now, but will soon be in the same position of the masses they have betrayed! God have mercy on them, because we won’t!

    • Matt says:

      Dean – just my opinion of course, but the general populace of our great nation is at a distinct disadvantage. Most have the ability to pay attention or maintain focus for about 30 seconds. As you pointed out, the folks that are destroying this country work on scales that approach geologic. Inch by inch, or mile by mile, or decade by decade…. they keep moving the ball forward and it is too much for the majority to keep track of, pay attention to, or give much of a shit about for more than a day or so.. then it is back to managing my FB account or my email, or wondering what Justin @cking Bieber’s fans are cutting off of their bodies today. This is a seige of epic proportions.

      • Brad says:

        You are soooo right! The only reason that President Obama was reelected is because of voter apathy. That and voter fraud of course. If the “silent majority” had mobilized, there is no way on earth he would have been reelected. People are by nature lazy, and most take a “wait and see” attitude. Then when the outcome does not go the way the wanted, they complain. They have no right to complain! It was their inaction that got us into this predicament in the first place. Get off of your lazy arses and stand up for Americans rights, or lose them.

        If it comes to an illegal law to limit our ability to purchase guns or ammunition, or take them away from us, most of these sheeple will not stand and fight. It will be a very small minority, just like the amount that are willing to serve in our military.

        They enjoy the rights and freedom that veterans served to secure for them and then they stab them in the back. FREEDOM ISN”T FREE!!! It has a very high price that unfortunately only a very few are willing to pay.

  8. CryptoMan says:

    Every single American and particularly every one that owns a firearm should read the just-released book “The Citizen’s Last Stand: Are YOU ready?” It is a complete handbook that’s been called “…one of the most important books on Liberty to be published in modern times,” by its reviewers. Find it in ebook and print on Amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/Citizens-Last-Stand-Are-Ready/dp/0615742637/

    No gunowner should be without one. Click on the cover of the ebook version to read the first sections. Even if you believe you’re knowledgeable on the Constitution, History and the political system, you will understand much better what is going on and why after reading this book.

  9. Scott Smith says:

    So how many people should be Impeached? He just sign into LAW, the NDAA Law. you no longer have due process for American’s ( read you your rights) for not DEFENDING THE CONSTITUTION which thay have sworn an oath to protect. (Treason)

  10. Ed Norton says:

    I have 37 combined years of law enforcement and military service. I’ll make a deal with the socialists and marxists that the American people have put in office; When you take the AK-47’s with high capacity magazines away from the Bloods & the Crips, the Latin Kings, the Black Panthers, and the Muslim Brotherhood savages who work for Hillary Clinton and who have the ear of the president, then come talk to me about taking my guns. Great article. “Those who are ignorant of politics, are destined to be ruled by inferior men.” – Aristotle

  11. It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 — five years after enacting its gun ban — the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

    Even Australia’s Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

    In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
    Sexual assault — Australia’s equivalent term for rape — increased 29.9 percent.
    Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
    Moreover, Australia and the United States — where no gun-ban exists — both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

    Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America’s rate dropped 31.7 percent.
    During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
    Sexual assault — Australia’s equivalent term for rape — increased 29.9 percent.
    Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
    At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
    Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.
    While this doesn’t prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Furthermore, this highlights the most important point: gun banners promote failed policy regardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them, says the Examiner.

    Source: Howard Nemerov, “Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban,” D.C. Examiner, April 8, 2009.

    For text:


  12. Robert says:

    The Feds can lick my ass and suck on my balls!- Team America

  13. Curious says:

    As heart breaking sandy hook and other massacres are, how does anyone know the perpetrators weren’t brainwashed so the government can push their agenda?

  14. Don Harned says:

    Ms. Golightly,
    You really are an idiot, calling someone on their grammar and you don’t know the difference between ‘passed’ and ‘past’. You are very laughable! I haven’t had time to read more of your posts so I may be back to point out more of you stupidity.

  15. Robert Marshner says:

    I was a shooting victim and had to fight a armed criminal unarmed because I made the really stupid mistake of thinking oh it could never happen to me I’m not stupid enough to think gun bans and gun control works to keep guns from mad men I’m not going to be victimized by the government anti gun nuts or common criminals I’m keeping my guns it’s not just my right to bear arms it’s my responsibility as an American citizen to be able to defend myself and my state if called upon I feel that any one who can own a gun and doesn’t is in violation of the 2nd amendment and I feel that these people who wish not to own a gun should be fined for putting undue stress on an over worked law enforcement system . All any gun ban or control is going to do is make victims out of us and I think it’s truly Unconstitutional and treasonous to even suggest any kind of infringement on the any part of our constitution or to speck openly in treasonous matters such as gun control or bans . I’m not going to just give up my guns Like a great actor said once You’ll have to pry it from my cold dead hands and thank God you have the balls to post what others have eluded to .

  16. Don Harned says:

    The gun grabbers are violating the constitution. What can we, as citizens, do to have them all removed from their positions for their treasonous acts? Hypocrisy is rampant, they all have their armed guards and don’t think we should be able to protect ourselves.

  17. Don Harned says:

    I would much rather have a policeman questioning my wife/daughter how they shot/fought off an attacker than have a policeman ask me which funeral home I want the body taken to go to.

    • Don Harned says:

      The last two words are incorrectly added to the last sentence above. I don’t want people relating me to Holly.

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  19. Sam says:

    Dean, Very well and bravely said. And about being on that list? That’s the reason for the 2nd Amendment to begin with! As to gun confiscation, they can collect all mine at my autopsy.

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  21. bruce says:

    Excellent article ! retired us navy, put me in the front of the parade……..

  22. Well done WARRIOR. I reposted your work today. http://floridadeathactannulled.com/

  23. Matt says:

    Great article. Interesting fact: The famous quote, supposedly made by Benjamin Franklin, isn’t quite right. The actual quote (made by James Bovard) is: “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.” The phrase “lunch” wasn’t even added to the english vocabulary until long after Ben was dead. The rest of the quote: “liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote,” was added in 1992 by someone on the internet. Nonetheless, it makes the point.

  24. madre41596 says:

    In the clear light of day, I realize gun control laws might just be futile anyway. If people are willing to die for their guns than they hold all the power. So I will take any gun control legislation off the table. With that being clear, is anyone willing to talk about a few things: a) why is our society so violent 2) should we even try to reduce gun violence in this country or just accept it as a part of our lives? At one time, the NRA was known for promoting handgun safety, markmanship and public safety. I see no evidence of that in the conversation at all. I come from a family of gun owners, my relatives are from the Upper Peninsula,, a place of hunters and gatherers. They revered and respected guns as the deadly weapons they were. It was clear that they would use it to stop an intruder, but hoped that it would never come to that.

    Apparently, the best way to command respect on these boards is to say you served in the military. I can’t put infantry service on my resume if I even wanted to because my gender prevented me from doing so. But I feel like a bit of a soldier in the trenches in my own way. See, I am a rehab therapist. I work withe people with spinal cord and brain injuries. i have worked in urban areas and in rural areas. I have worked with young men in both who believe (young black men in gangs and young white men who are Neo Nazis. I see them as being no different. Somehow they have absorbed the message that gun ownership makes you feared, and if you are feared you are respected and are powerful. Where do you think this message comes from? Now, let me remind you, there are a lot of common demoninators (low level of education, drug addiction and sales (cocaine in urban areas, meth in rural areas) Its very tempting to look at these people in groups and dehumanize them, but like I said when I talk to them one on one, they are all so similar.

    So, any other phenomena that causes high health care costs, disability and loss of life is usually an area of concern. Why would gun violence be any different? I will accept the premise that regulation is not the answer.

    • Its already been proven that deregulation is the best answer to lowering the gun violence. There will never come a time when violence is completely eradicated. The biggest problem is with the law makers. Most of them are clueless and the people they partner up with are just as clueless, maybe even more so if thats possible. IThe lever of concern shouldn.t be any diff but because commercial fishermen have been known to drown you don’t quit eating fish or building trawlers do you?

    • Oswald Bastable says:

      madre, you’ve reached a good starting point for acceptance. With over 20,000 gun laws on the books to date, and, given near total disarmament in the UK and Australia has resulted in increases in all violent crimes, it is indeed highly unlikely any further gun laws will result in less violence. Every single honest study of the matter has concluded that more guns equal less crime, violent and otherwise.

      As to your first question, why our society is so violent, there are several factors involved. Start with the, so called, “Great Society” of LBJ, where vast sums of money have been poured into the mistaken idea that the poor can be made more affluent by subsidizing them. Today, after some 40-50 trillion poured into that failed idea, we have more poor now than we did when LBJ launched his experiment. Additionally, the government’s actions with regard to subsidizing the poor have led to the dissolution of the nuclear family for vast numbers of lower income groups by directly encouraging single family households of mothers with children, and also encouraging men to not cleave to their children and families, but rather to roam from woman to woman, taking no responsibility for their progeny. For decades the welfare system has directly encouraged this by offering money, food and lodging to unwed mothers with children, and taking it away if there was a father in the house. It is a known fact that children without two strong adult role models in the household will not be as well socialized and responsible as those with.

      Next, there is the dumbing down of the educational system, to the point where today’s young people graduate HS with the equivalent of what would have been a 4th or 5th grade education in the 1950s and before. Civics has been removed or replaced with socialist ideals; history teaches a revised curriculum, again, in line with socialist doctrine, denigrating any and all achievements of western society in the last several hundred years, attempting to paint and taint all accomplishments in light of those mistakes and evils done along the way, all to marginalize and vilify the so called “evil white man”, though it’s certainly not just “white” men who are vilified, indeed, anyone supporting the rise of western civilization has become a monster in modern historical teaching; English is but a cursory subject, its use and promulgation is a minor bump to overcome along the way, as students without proficiency are passed up from grade to grade, never being required to be able to read and write with the proficiency as was once expected; calculators have replaced the learning of logic in math, and thus we have young people today who struggle to even be able to make the correct change if the cash register is broken, much less solve a quadratic equation.

      The media has severely upped the quotient of sex and violence children are exposed to from cradle to graduation, and the media loves to portray the bad guys as good. Not necessarily overtly, in most cases, but the idea of “the end justifies the means” is a frequent message in music, games, TV & movies…teaching children from an early age that it is okay to perform this or that evil act, as long as you believe the end result will somehow be for something good, whether it be the rap song that justifies killing whitey, the TV show that turns a vigilante into Robin Hood, the movie that justifies the murder of millions for some socialist, pie in the sky dream, or the MSM who would like to disarm all legal, honest, law abiding gun owners for the sake of realizing a Utopian dream that has never been achieved in all of history, a society without violence.

      Finally, and this really should have been my first point, as it is above and paramount to all the others, the attempted removal of God from all facets of society. Whether you believe in a God or not, it is a fact that humans need the idea and ideal of some force higher than man, to whom we will one day have to answer for our evils and perfidy. Otherwise, the only ideal available is the shifting sands of history as we have often seen it, where one group rises against another, all for greed, personal gain and power; a shifting deck where only the laws of men are paramount, and can be changed at the whim of another group of men. It is for that reason the Founders proclaimed the bill of rights inalienable, granted from the creator and not to be infringed by the government of men. It is why there was much discussion of whether the 1st or 2nd Amendment should take precedence over the other…and in the end agreed (not without dissent) that free speech and worship should hold primacy over the right to arms.

      Take all of these together and you end up with a society where millions of young people, raised in substandard conditions, uneducated for all intents and purposes, steeped in violence, both in media and in their neighborhoods, and with no regard for any authority higher than themselves…surprise, surprise, end up being violent. It was a recipe meant to achieve the very result it has, and it is based, in toto, on the communist playbook for how to destroy a free society from within. Disarmament is the next step.

      I will leave it to others to answer your second question, as I’ve gone on long enough here.

      • madre41596 says:

        oh god, that is such a predictable answer. I was really hoping for more than that line of crap. Not once, like a grown up , do you even hint at the idea of gun violence being, in some small part being the glamorization of guns. Grown ups introspect, they dont blames everyone else. Liberals are the root of the demise of our country? Do you know in my beloved state of MIchigan that the highest rate of public assistance is not in our urban areas, but in our rural areas? The Tea Party and Libertarian parties are very popular in these counties. In Livingston County, the proudly displayed the KKK uniforms as a source of pride. These same counties have rampant meth addiction, terrible drop out rates, and lots of Obama is a coon sign. It looks like the hunger games out there, and there is not a Democrat in office , and there has not been one in decades. They enjoy super low taxes and bitch about the quality of the schools . All of their problems are the result of liberals and black people and how the Muslims are taking over. It is an absolute travesty. I really need to get off this thread , i am wasting precious time and energy. I have to go to work in a bit. Oh and by the way, I am moogie too . Yes, I you are right..I have seen the light. You are powerful because you will die for your guns. You will not even hint at your contribution to problems in this country. I fear you. I have no respect for you.

        • Oswald Bastable says:

          Did I not speak of the media? Where do you think the glamorization of guns has come from madre/moogie? Awfully nice of you let us know you are not only foolish, but duplicitous as well. Like many of liberal ilk, you’re unable to stand on your own and must resort to subterfuge to make it appear you have consent and backup, when in fact it is just you, attempting to bolster your sadly incompetent understanding of history, economics and politics. It would seem the following article was penned for people just such as yourself:


          Of course, your complaint of who is using and abusing the subsidization of poverty, contrary to your assertion, proves my point. I said nothing of race or ethnicity in my points about government subsidized poverty…it is you who have now interjected them. Are you a racist moogie/madre? Be that as it may, it does not matter who is being debased by subsidizing them at a poverty level, yet it is a fact that subsidizing people at a poverty level discourages them from accepting individual responsibility for themselves and their position in life. Over years and generations, that discouragement leads to people incapable of caring for themselves or taking responsible steps toward bettering themselves and their positions in life. It is interesting to note that in Yellowstone park they have signs stating one should not feed the bears, as they may become dependent and unable to take care of themselves. Government poverty programs, aside from wasting trillions of tax payer dollars, have proven the same is true of humans.

          But yes, you run away now moogie/madre. You’ve outed yourself as a duplicitous, anti-constitutional robot, parroting the MSM and liberal line, likely a racist, and most certainly one of the useful idiots that Stalin spoke so sneeringly of. You run back into your liberal echo chamber, where if we can just get rid of the guns we can then all join together and sing kumbayah, eat skittles and wallow in American Idol all week. Run moogie/madre, run from the big bad right wingers who believe in rights that come from God, and not from the pontifications of greedy and evil men bent on destroying that which good men have previously built.

          But, be of good cheer moogie/madre! If we who value life, independence and the rule of constitutional protections do not succeed in beating back this current tide of subjugation coming our way; if your fondest dreams come true, all the guns are taken and all the right wing “extremists” are rounded up and put to death (as so many of your progressive/liberal brethren are now calling for in blog after blog, forum after forum, news show after news show) then you will find yourself in those blissful chains you so gladly seek. You will learn that the progressive/liberal elites have in store for you the same things they always have over the last 100+ years. You have the history of it behind you as witness to what is coming. You can read all about it in the history of Germany, Russia, China, Cambodia, among the most heinous of those examples.

          Run moogie/madre, run, run, run, straight into your own private gulag.

          For my part, i will not go quietly into that goodnight.

        • Oswald Bastable says:

          However, moogie/madre, if you would care to attempt to refute my rather eloquently elaborated points with something other than invective and diatribe that touches upon none (except tangentially) of said arguments, you know, as in a point by point refutation…the way the big boys and girls do in reasoned debate…why, I await with baited breath.

          • madre41596 says:

            Where was the eloquent post Oswald? We are not having a debate. This is a conversation and an argument. Please stop acting like your posts are some sort of divinely inspired wisdom, its your opinion, just like mine is my opinion. You really humility. You dont really see that concerned about people, you just want win a debate. You are really , really grandiose.

            • Oswald Bastable says:

              From Websters:

              de·bate noun

              Definition of DEBATE
              : a contention by words or arguments: as
              a : the formal discussion of a motion before a deliberative body according to the rules of parliamentary procedure
              b : a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides

              debate verb

              Definition of DEBATE
              intransitive verb
              1 obsolete : fight, contend
              2 a : to contend in words
              b : to discuss a question by considering opposed arguments
              3: to participate in a debate
              transitive verb
              1 a : to argue about
              b : to engage (an opponent) in debate
              2: to turn over in one’s mind

              Care to try again oh duplicitous one? If your understanding of the words you yourself use is so very limited, it is difficult to have anything resembling a meaningful “debate” with you.

              Now, if you can find it within yourself to stop attempting to deflect the discourse into something else, perhaps you can respond to my arguments on a point by point basis.

              Otherwise, I shall simply have to return to denigrating you and making you look foolish, as I was before you attempted your subterfuge of pretending to desire a debate.

              • Brad says:

                Oswald, you are my new hero!!! I have always felt that I handle myself fairly well in debates with liberals, but you, I have to concede are a poet. Not only have you presented a cogent argument with facts and figures, but you have left the duplicitous one with no recourse but to concede and admit defeat. But alas, just like all liberals, instead of being gracious in the face of defeat, she has resorted to personal attacks and the denigration of your character. Why am I not surprised?

                • Jim Chandler says:

                  Liberals are not capable of telling the truth and when you confront them with the truth they start the name calling. Their ignorance is incredible. It shows the damage the govt. has done to our education system. Our children can’t rationally think. All they can do is pass a test and text.
                  Trying to have an intelligent conversation with a liberal is an incredible act of frustration. They have already been told what to think and don’t want you to confuse them with facts.
                  The reason the democrats don’t like the NRA is that they have never been able to dispute ANY fact when the NRA comes to hearings. They are the only group that comes before congress that has never been caught in a lie or a fudged fact.

              • Oswald Bastable says:

                Small minds have small arguments, smaller jibes, and even less credibility when pitting lies against the truth, when compared to the great liars, like Marx, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, 0bama. Would that I had the ability in impromptu speech to rival what I can do on the written page, but while my discourse is fluent in writing, given time for thought of what I wish to say, I can not match it in spur of the moment, extemporaneous ad lib…we all have our limitations. 🙂

                However, I thank you for your praise, along with Thom and others here who have expressed similar sentiments toward my reasoning and argumentative skills. A good grounding in philosophical logic helps, but additionally, I was blessed by God with a keen memory and thirst for historical knowledge, from the tablets of Hammurabi in the ancient past, through biblical times, the rise of Greece, the Etruscans, Rome, the dark ages, the middle ages, the Renaissance, industrial age, space age…all of these fascinate me, along with all the thought and reason that created them, lies and deceit that hindered them, and in time, destroyed each of them (or will destroy what we have now)…and that is just my interest in western society.

                I was once asked, if I could have any super power I wanted, what would I choose. My reply was, “would the wisdom of Solomon be considered a super power?”

                Solomon once said; “What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.”

                The philosopher George Santayana rephrased it as, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”, but it is instructive here to consider his preamble to this oft repeated catchphrase, particularly as it relates to the liberal demand that the Constitution “grow, change and morph” with society.

                Santayana’s full quote (from The Life of Reason – Vol. 1 Reason in Common Sense) is: “Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

                Today, we witness the perpetual infancy demanded by change…in our government, in the masses, our media, our education…in fools like moogie/madre, who desire change so desperately, at any cost, because they refuse to retain experience or wisdom…who desire change even if it means death…as long as the death is not theirs, all the while unknowing their death also comes, unbidden, held within those hands of change without wisdom.

                But enough of this soliloquy..

                Again, my thanks for your approbation.

        • I’ll be the first to say, ” you got some of it right” congratulations.

          • Oswald Bastable says:

            The first sentence, yes…regretfully, I was taken in by it, given we now both know it was a lie.

            • Moogie says:

              It wasn’t so deliberate deception, I was having trouble greeting my posts on with on count. What is you called me? The great deflector? I like that. It’s going to be my super hero name. I am no match for your vastly superior intellect, patriotism. Your ability to dominate a comment forum is awe inspiring.

              • Oswald Bastable says:


              • Brad says:

                I am sure that it wasn’t meant as a compliment, but you go right ahead honey and wear that insult as a badge of honor, okay? And don’t forget to tell all of your liberal friends how you just tortured a big bad gun loving right winger. But I sure wouldn’t let them read this thread. Even a third grader could very easily see that you were way out of your league and had your back side handed to you on a silver platter.

                Oh, and every time you use that “super hero name” it will be a constant reminder of how badly you just got schooled.

                • Moogie says:

                  Dear gun lovers that supposedly ” schooled” me….
                  .i did learn a lot about the state of mind of a portion of our nation. It is really thought provoking. Here is my takeaway; you will live by the gun and ie by the gun. I am sure that is in your future, enjoy this freedom. You think I am brainwashed? All this time on this thread is reinforced my belief that you are all part of a cult.

                  • Brad says:

                    moogie, there is no supposedly involved. You and your arguments/questions were taken one at a time and either refuted or explained in plain and simple terms that even you should have understood. But, you are a typical liberal that will never concede defeat even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

                    Do you know how to catch a monkey? You take a coconut and bore a hole in it just large enough for the monkey to put its hand inside. Then you put their favorite food inside and secure the coconut to a tree or a stake in the ground. The monkey puts its hand in the hole to retrieve the treat and grabs it, but with its hand now in a fist it cannot get its hand back out through the hole. The monkey will not release the treat, it will scream and struggle, throw a fit and go absolutely berserk, but it will not let that treat go. It is trapped by its own greed and inability to let go. Now you can now just walk right up to it and capture it. You, are that monkey. You and all of your liberal cohorts.

                    I don’t believe anyone here wants to die by the gun, but we are not going to surrender our right to defend ourselves against a tyrannical government. History has proven time and time again that when a government disarms its citizens by force, tyranny soon after ensues. Many examples have already been given, i.e. Nazi Germany, Russia, China and the list goes on. Something else you may want to consider… Sir John Buchan, the First Baron of Tweedsmuir, said, “Those who do not study history are condemned to repeat it,”.

                    Your way does not work. “An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.” And you are correct, we are part of a cult. It is called freedom loving Americans. If you do not like our laws and our Constitution, move to a country whose laws you do like instead of trying to change ours. We left oppressive governments to come to this great nation to experience the freedom that most intelligent people crave. If you want someone else telling you when to eat, what to eat, when to go to bed, and what to think. Go someplace else. Brave men and women fought and died to secure our freedoms, and you just want to give them away. You are spitting on their graves. You are an ungrateful ignorant twit that wants everyone to abide by your views. That is not what freedom is.

                    I have hesitated to say this because I don’t like to toss it in peoples faces, but yes, I served in our military for over 8 years including some active reserve time, both as an enlisted man and as an officer. I was an infantry paratrooper, and then a Warrant Officer helicopter pilot. I served willingly and placed my life on the line to secure your right to disagree with me and say what you want. But do not for one second mistake my generosity for stupidity. If you try to take away the rights that I served for, I will not stand idly by.

                    • Oswald Bastable says:

                      Well said Brad, and my profound thanks for your service to our country and constitution.

        • Jambo says:

          You fear a lot of things, may be everything, as well you should.

    • Oswald Bastable says:

      By the by…the NRA still promotes handgun safety, marksmanship and public safety. It’s just there are larger issues at the fore which have drowned those activities out, particularly in the media, who refuse to report on the good done by the NRA in those areas.

      • madre41596 says:

        Additionally, the government’s actions with regard to subsidizing the poor have led to the dissolution of the nuclear family for vast numbers of lower income groups by directly encouraging single family households of mothers with children, and also encouraging men to not cleave to their children and families, but rather to roam from woman to woman, taking no responsibility for their progeny. For decades the welfare system has directly encouraged this by offering money, food and lodging to unwed mothers with children, and taking it away if there was a father in the house. It is a known fact that children without two strong adult role models in the household will not be as well socialized and responsible as those with.

        You seriously are predictable because you think that Western society is without flaw. America is a great country but it is far, far from perfect, including the manner in which we built ourselves. We backed out on our words to Native Americans well into the 20th century. The founding fathers were complex , flawed men. They are the f-ing justice league. The nuclear family in black America was not destroyed by LBJs great society. Its breakdown can be attributed to slavery, when families were broken and sold apart.Then there were the lynchings. But that makes America look bad. Are you part of Tea Party who wants the schools to teach the upside of slavery? I mean what were they bitching about? They had free room and board. Conservatives are great at a lot of things, hierarchy, budget cuts, defense, but they are not very good at introspection. They are the strongest, and everyone else is weak and feeding off the system. Who wouldnt want to buy into that version of history? Its so comforting. Please, tell me again how there are no leading conserfative voices with multiple partners and tenuous relationships with their chidren (TED NUGENT! A self proclamined serial pedophile) Ronald Reagen, the conservative messiah was the first divorced president.
        I dont think liberal ideology is perfect. I dont think Obama is perfect. I despise what he has done with drones. But the brand of conservatives I see out here, they long for a time that never existed. Its built on fantasies. It reminds me of all the people who talk about how Detroit was awesome before the race riots. If its was so great,, then why did the race riots occur?
        I dont care to go back to the days of the founding fathers, when the scoffed at the idea of women and blacks voting. Though they are the founding fathers, they derived much of their power by oppressing others.

        • Oswald Bastable says:

          Where did I even suggest western society was without flaw? Be specific moogie/madre, otherwise your entire rant is discounted given your premise is false.

        • Oswald Bastable says:

          Nuclear black families were doing just fine before LBJ moogie/madre. They had rebounded since the time of slavery, indeed as a reaction to those very acts of being pulled apart in those times. I can see you’ve not studied that part of history very closely if you believe what you’ve said. Either that, or you’ve been reading a lot of revisionist history that wasn’t so.

          Could you provide a link to any official Tea Party stance on “teaching the upside of slavery” in schools? I’d be very interested to read it…as long as it’s a legitimate link to a Tea Party site, not some liberal’s rant on the Daily Kos, or DU.

          Similarly, a link to Uncle Ted’s self proclaimed serial pedophile status would be nice, along with an explanation as to why, if true, he’s not either being prosecuted, or in prison.

          Nobody is saying we should go back to the days of the Founding Fathers. What we are saying is that they manged to construct a couple of magnificent documents, being the Declaration and Constitution, and to create one of the freest countries in the form of a Constitutional Republic. And that we won’t lose all of that to a bunch of wishy-washy, whiny crybabies who would prefer someone to change their diapers and give them their bink, to standing upon their own two feet as free men and women.

          • madre41596 says:

            Look up Uncle Teds Behind the Music on VH1. You are really,, really hilarious! What is with the reference to American Idol? My family and I rarely watch t.v. Our home is filled with books. Our heroes are great humanitarians. Our heroes don’t clutch to guns. I am retreating, not into a gulag. I just think this exchange, though somewhat amusing and informative is no longer serve and purpose. I am dying to ask: are you short by any chance? I feel like I can hear the Napoleon complex screaming out.

            • Oswald Bastable says:

              Ah yes…VH1, that pinnacle of journalism and high brow educational viewing, quoted by someone who “rarely watches TV”…

              And again, no answers or refutation, just more deflection and a lovely little (pun intended) ad hominem to boot! Why aren’t you just a treasure trove of reasoned discourse moogie/madre.

              • madre41596 says:

                “I will have to keep denigrating you.” You are creepy. What pinnacle of journalism did you think was going to have Ted Nugent on? There is a debate on this board, you and I are just flashing our peacock feathers around. You are still the smartest and the prettiest. There , there.

                • Oswald Bastable says:

                  And you didn’t answer my 2nd question moogie/madre…if Uncle Ted has outed himself as a serial pedophile (and if he had, I’m sure there would be at least a youtube clip of it, culled from your journalistic standard) then where are the victims who have come forward, and why isn’t he on trial or in prison?

                  And as far as creepy goes, posing as two separate people in a debate, all to try and bolster your opinions is about as creepy as it gets lady…not to mention that it’s downright dishonest. But of course, the “means justified the end” in your opinion, did it not?

        • Brad says:

          moogie/madre, again… it is the liberal that brings up race. Why are you such a racist? Oswald never once said anything about race. Go and take a look at the demographics of welfare families. I’m sure that you won’t so I will post it here for you.

          Here are the statistics on welfare recipients:

          Traits of families on AFDC (1)

          White 38.8%
          Black 37.2
          Hispanic 17.8
          Asian 2.8
          Other 3.4

          Stop with the liberal/progressive playing card. When ever you are losing an argument you either call your opponent a racist or a vulgarity. Learn to think for yourself instead of repeating talking points that have no basis in fact.

        • carrn says:

          Wow, them there natives an them there slave peoples sure coulda used sum o them there semi automatic sporting rifles with a 30 round magazine dont you think?

          • carrn says:

            This was ment for madre’s hx ramble on a earlier post,sorry.

            • Moogie says:

              I don’t know what point you re trying to make. Is this a reference to the NRA supported gun control under governor Ronald Reagen when the black panthers acted on what they thought was their 2nd amendment rights? Would you support that gun control measure today. If every legal citizen of he u.s. should have a gun, them Huey newton, standing up to an unjust government, is really part of this groups ideology, correct?

              • Jerry says:

                I didn’t know that anyone in this country actually understood the revolution of the 60’s and 70’s.

                I know that most of the community leaders of these organizations are dead or in prison for life.

                Seth Hayes, Jamal, Leonard Peltier, etc., etc., etc.

                • madre41596 says:

                  So,, I am not sure where you are coming from? You think the Black Panthers were right, and protected by the 2nd amendment?

                  • Jerry says:

                    The true “handle” of the Black Panther Party was “The Black Panther Party for Self Defense”.

                    Given that, it would indicate that the Panthers were about the safety and protection of their communities.

                    The reason why the Panthers became so popular so quickly was that they actually represented a grass roots movement for people who wished to take back their communities and become self-sufficient.

                    The Panthers worked hand-in-glove with AIM (American Indian Movement) and other community organizations in order to effect positive change in their communities and spread ideas and ideals necessary for this change.

                    Drug clinics were started and long time addicts were rescued from lives of despair.

                    Free breakfast programs were popular with the children as they provided a healthy beginning for a day spent in school.

                    For some children this breakfast meal formed the greatest part of their total nutrition for the day.

                    The Black Panther Party newspaper disseminated news about political prisoners and their struggles in addition to information about community projects and successes.

                    Does the second amendment cover this kind of activity and encourage communities to protect and defend their rights to a quality life when built by themselves?

                    I don’t think the second amendment applies. I agree that these rights are endowed by their creators and while all wo/men are not created equal, when the right to self-expression and self-empowerment are exercised, I feel that anyone who gets in the way of that activity presents a problem.

                    The reason the Panthers had to be imprisoned and die was due to the fact that they represented a true challenge to the establishment in that they provided an alternative way of living that was in contrast to the ruling class’s dictates.

                    Communities attempting to better themselves cannot be tolerated in this drug, violence, dumbed-down society where everyone has to be the same miserable slug taking orders from the same group of chosen people.

                    Also communities attempting to get themselves free of drugs will quickly learn what the Chinese did, only too well, when they attempted to free themselves from opium in the 1800’s.

                    Afghanistan is currently all about the heroin trade and poppy production is at record levels there and the poppies aren’t going to flower stores to be sold on the day of Saint Valentine.

                • Honestly Jerry,, I think your just trying to boost your ego by calling anything that happened in the 60-70’s a revolution!! hahaha

          • YEAH! I just bet they could have used a few AR-15’s, especially on their own kind that captured them and sold them into slavery. Then we wouldn’t have to contend with them now, would we?

            • Moogie says:

              Why does it matter that other Africans sold them into slavery? It does not absolve our country of its place in America.

              • Brad says:

                moogie, Just wondering, do you blame the drug users or the drug pushers/sellers? Think about it.

                • madre41596 says:

                  I think you are missing my point. The fact that lack people sold other black people does not absolve us being slave owners is somehow justified. No one forced people to go the slaves. I don’t know what you are getting at with the drug pusher analogy. Surely you are not implying that the early settlers were duped into owning slaves? That they did not know what it meant.

                • Billie Arens says:

                  (I don’t know why it says respond to Brad, please forgive me). I wanted to reply to one of the posts. I lived for four years in England. I discovered that the British people can be wonderful and caring. I loved the experience and would love to visit again. Some British people can be full of themselves and condescending as can some Americans. Please don’t judge them by what you have read on these posts.
                  Also, it is true the discussions have been about more than gun control. I am so very sad that there isn’t one honest politician. They are in it for the money and do illegal things to gain it. If we did such things, we would be arrested. The president is just living off the backs of taxpayers. I can’t believe the things his family has been doing and charging it to us. Thank you for this blog. Carry on.

            • Oswald Bastable says:

              Does it matter that Arabs in Sudan still buy and sell black slaves, and good little liberal/progressives such as yourself and the democratic party do nothing about it? Does it matter to good little liberal/progressive women’s rights supporters like yourself and NOW, that women are routinely mutilated, genitally and otherwise, stoned for adulteries they didn’t commit and murdered in honor killings daily in Arab countries across the ME and Africa? Does it matter that liberal/progressives are the height of hypocrisy when it comes to their beliefs and what they will fight for?

              I maintain it does.

              • Moogie says:

                It absolutely matters when people are enslaved and tortured. My point s this: just because it was a group of Muslims that were responsible for 9 11 doesn’t mean all Muslims were involved. I have friends and coworkers who are Muslim whose families have been in the u.s. they are law abiding , tax paying members of our country. I am Christian… Christianity have have plenty of extremists.. Mr. Hitler is among the ranks who identified as Christians. There are extremists in most religions, in fact I see a lot of similarities in the extremists in all religions. It is really arrogant and irresponsible to say that all liberals don’t follow their values. Of course there are people of all ideologies that aren’t consistent. I think I pointed out in a previous post that I know lots of libertarians that take public aid.

                • Oswald Bastable says:

                  No one here, but you, has intimated “all” muslims are bad, extremist or involved in world-wide jihad.

                  And all of this is just more deflection from the subject at hand, which has nothing at all to do with muslims.

                  • Moogie says:

                    Then what do the references to the Muslim brotherhood mean? It s totally on point. There are references to it being the infiltrate in our government. Or is it the liberals. I absolutely did not initimate the all Muslims re bad. I did just the opposite. . I asked someone to define what Muslim brotherhood meant and then Someone else said does it matter about enslavement? That was a big circumvention. Do, can anybody identify the Muslim brotherhood? I am just trying to figure out who the big uprising is going to be against? Is it our government? Is it only the government when Obama is in power? Would we be okay if mitt Romney were in office? Will you have meetings? Wo will be coming to get the guns? The military?

                    • I agree with Oswald that you are the only one here that has even suggested that all muslims are bad. Let me ask you,, if only 1 % of muslims are radicals, how many does that make?

                  • Oswald Bastable says:

                    You tell me? I just did a search on this page and the phrase “muslim brotherhood has been used a total of 5 times. Once by Ed Norton in a passing reference to who should be disarmed before others are, the other 4 times by you, moogie/madre. If I search on uses of the term “muslim” (apart from its use with brotherhood) I find two by myself, in the post to you above, and nine by you.

                    So what is your agenda here moogie/madre. Go read Ken Norton’s post, then please tell us why you’re so concerned with mulsims and the brotherhood…apart from your attempt to, once again, interject bigoted speech into this discussion…

                • Jerry says:

                  9 11 was a mossad/cia job.

                  the buildings were demolished (through the use of explosives).

                  2 airplanes hitting 2 buildings cannot knock down 3 buildings into their own footprints without a lot of directed external force.

                  fires do NOT knock down steel frame structures.

  25. Lindsey says:

    Great article. I will be passing this along. Truthfully, my husband and I have been asking “what can we do?” There are so many inconsistencies out there on what our rights are as gun owners. Now we know and now we will defend our Constitutional right. There was always the discussion of “over my dead body” but when you think about it, how many law enforcement officials are actually going to push the fact? They are citizens the same as us. Not to mention all the former military that will not give up their rights that they fought to defend.

  26. Mark Stockdale says:

    Reposting this down here as it was lost in the timeline. Thismwas in response to someone who claimed England was a dangerous place to go.
    In other parts of this blog you guys decry the media for not being straight, if they don’t say what you want to hear. Your beloved Fox news, Ben Swann, I think used some figures that were 3 years old and did compare apples with apples. Remember to question your sources.

    Every one in here seems a little unhinged. Any way this is what I wrote above.

    Utter bollocks as we say in England. The violent crime rate in the US is higher than the UK. Your media can’t get the figures correct. You have a violent crime rate of 2,250/100K of population, figures from bureau of justice, your lower FBI figures only count more serious violent crime. The quoted UK figures count all violent crime. Compare apples with apples. The UK is around the 2,000/100K http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales
    Roughly speaking violent crime is higher in the US but not by much. So violence in our countries is depressingly high. On the other hand your homicide rate is 4 times higher, I wonder if guns have anything to do with that?

    • Ron91710 says:

      1) We have more crime because we do not punish criminals enough and we have MANY, MANY more people than the UK. 2) If you don’t like our Constitution, stay in the UK.

      • Mark says:

        Showing your ignorance again. The figure you Quote of 2034/100K in the UK (this was 2009 it has reduced since then. Did you check my link.The US Bureau of Justice quotes 2,250/100K for the US. http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/17/us/violent-crime/index.html

        The reason for the difference is that the FBI collect data for more serious offences while the Bureau of Justice collects all data. The UK figure is for all crimes. So when you compare apples for apples the US is more violent. Then put guns into the mix.


        You were saying, Oswald?

        • Oswald Bastable says:

          So…a 9% difference…but let’s look at the real numbers, shall we Mark?

          There are an estimated 3.4 million guns in civilian hands in the UK, a rate of 6.2 firearms per 100 people.

          There are an estimated 270 million guns in civilian hands in the US, a rate of 88.8 firearms per 100 people.

          So, US civilians hold 79 times as many guns as their UK counterparts, at a rate 14 times as high as their UK counterparts, and (by your figures) you’re only 9% safer than we are…

          High praise for disarmament there Mark…high praise.

          • Mark says:

            The point is that Americans kill each other more than any other “western/democratic/wealthy” nation. The pro gunners say that the UK is very violent, they banned guns ergo we must keep guns.
            I am saying that our violent crime rates are similar. But you murder each other much more. Therefore guns are the reason for higher murder rate. If you reduce your access to guns there would be less murders.
            I take it that you cant get rid of guns, but you can regulate, registration, make them traceable, require insurance. I haven’t heard that many Americans call for a ban, more regulation (a well regulated militia) is an achievable goal. But pro gunners claim a God given right to secretly store an arsenal with no responsibility. You were trusted but now you can’t be, therefore you are gonna have to change things. A few bad gun dealers and buying loopholes have ruined it for the masses.

            Surely it is worth it if more American kids live to celebrate their birthdays?

            • Oswald Bastable says:

              I see, guns are responsible…so they’re leaping out of their gun safes across the country, running out and murdering people of their own accord?

              You’re 9% safer with 79 times fewer guns that we have Mark. If it was due to the guns, shouldn’t you have a murder rate nearly infinitesimal compared to ours?

              Again, the foolish attempt to use the phrase “well regulated militia” to mean regulation. I won’t go through the meaning of “well regulated militia” again, I’ve done it elsewhere in these comments, but suffice it to say that argument is a non sequitur.

              Quote: “Surely it is worth it if more American kids live to celebrate their birthdays?” End quote.

              Good God, save us from namby-pamby liberals who scream “for the children” yet whose own main news network embraced, protected and abetted one of the most prolific child molesters in UK history. More children die each year, drowning in bathtubs and swimming pools, than die by guns…so let’s regulate those to the point of a government watcher for every child bath and swimming excursion.

            • Jim Chandler says:

              Since the U.K. passed gun control and confiscated the guns their crime rate has risen to the highest in the western world. Their violent crime rate is the highest in Europe. Before gun control, U.K. police didn’t have to carry guns, now the violent crime is so bad they have to carry guns. Other European countries warn their citizens not to travel in the U.K. because of the numbers of violent crimes. I can’t see where the U.K. has improved. They are just a whole island of victims.
              READ THE WRITINGS OF THE FRAMERS OF THE CONSTITUTION. There is nothing there about hunting. They ALL write that the second amendment is there so the people have a means to control their govt. This will need at least semi automatic weapons and high capacity magazines. It is not just a constitutional guarantee but a duty of each citizen to be ready and able to defend themselves from ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC. It isn’t about gun control, it is about people control.

            • Oswald Bastable says:

              Quote: “I am saying that our violent crime rates are similar.”

              And so, you are also saying disarming your population had little discernible effect on violent crime rates. What point is it that you are trying to make, Mark?

              • Mark says:


                Thanks for asking. If we start from the point that our violent crime rates are similar, therefore unfortunately we both live in violent societies. Please comment on each point.

                1. Both violent societies – fact
                2. UK Homicide rate is 1.02/100K of population
                3. US Homicide rate is 5.3/100K of population
                4. UK Gun homicide rate is 0.08/100K of population
                5. US Gun Homicide rate is 3.6/100K of population

                Do we agree on figure (or at least close enough for discussion)?

                Although both societies are generally more violent than other comparable countries the easy access to firearms increases the risk of a firearm being used to attempt to murder. Guns are good at killing people, therefore your homicide rate is higher, as is of course your gun homicide rate.

                What are your views on the debate of gun control?

                You accuse others of “deflection” away from the topic but you went off topic in a previous response to me, bringing car deaths (and pool and medicine) into the debate. This debate is about guns, so stay on topic no deflection. However as a side note please look here – It is estimated that gun deaths will out do car deaths by 2015. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/american-gun-deaths-to-exceed-traffic-fatalities-by-2015.html
                Even if you don’t believe the commies at Bloomberg the trajectories of the graph are terrifying.

                Do you at least agree that something must change with respect to gun ownership and the way this is managed.

                In the UK the debate has never had any political angle to it. We do not have any major arms manufacturers selling to consumers (I think we may be in the top 5 arms sellers but to governments, and yes we have done some dodgy deals but lets stay on topic). US arms manufacturers have a responsibility to their share holders to maintain or grow profits. This skews the debate as your politicians have been put in a difficult position by the funding the manufacturers provide to the economy, American jobs, tax dollars and campaign funding.

                Violent crimes and gun crime have had a dramatic reduction in the UK.

                I don’t think that anyone is “coming for your guns” but there will be change.

                I look forward to your and others responses.

                Source for 2009 US figures http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm
                Source for 2009 UK figures http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb0111/hosb0111?view=Binary

                • Oswald Bastable says:

                  1. 90+ percent of societies are violent, point 1 is a non sequitur..

                  2. Basically unchanged from 1992 – 2009…the decrease in guns has had no net effect.

                  3. Decreased from 9.93/100K in 1993 – 5.1/100K in 2011…directly attributable, in my opinion, to the rise in concealed carry.

                  4. Basically unchanged from 1992 – 2009…the decrease in guns has had no net effect.
                  Same citation.

                  5. Basically unchanged from 1999 – 2011…the increase in guns and rise of concealed carry has had no net effect.
                  Same citation.

                  The statistics show removing guns from society has had no net effect on your homicide or homicide by gun rate, however concealed carry has resulted in a direct downward trend in homicide rate in the US, though homicide rate by gun has remained, for all intents and purposes, unchanged…proving John Lott’s finding that more guns = less crime.

                  If you are going to talk about the role of tools in the death rate to, in effect, demonize those tools, there is no deflection in talking about the death rate caused by other activities or devices…though it does point out the flaw in your logic about tools.

                  And if you believe anything Bloomberg says about anything at all, you have a much deeper problem than I’d previously imagined. Next to George Soros he is one of the biggest liars on the planet.

                  As to the decrease in violent crime in the UK since 2009, that same decrease has been recorded throughout western societies, if you care to look into the data…so calling your decrease the result of fewer guns is meaningless.

        • Brad says:

          Mark, this article is a little bit old too, but I believe you will get the gist of these numbers. In Kennesaw, Georgia, gun ownership is mandatory in every household. Look at what happened to the crime rate there. This story destroys your argument and puts the myth that more guns equals more dead people to rest. Here is the link and the story.


          Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia — Crime Rate Plummets
          tysk news ^ | 1997 | Baldwin

          Posted on Tue Apr 17 14:29:03 2007 by doug from upland

          Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia
          Crime Rate Plummets

          by Chuck Baldwin

          The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia’s ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes.

          The city’s population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982.

          And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998.

          With all the attention that has been heaped upon the lawful possession of firearms lately, you would think that a city that requires gun ownership would be the center of a media feeding frenzy. It isn’t. The fact is I can’t remember a major media outlet even mentioning Kennesaw. Can you?

          The reason is obvious. Kennesaw proves that the presence of firearms actually improves safety and security. This is not the message that the media want us to hear. They want us to believe that guns are evil and are the cause of violence.

          The facts tell a different story. What is even more interesting about Kennesaw is that the city’s crime rate decreased with the simple knowledge that the entire community was armed. The bad guys didn’t force the residents to prove it. Just knowing that residents were armed prompted them to move on to easier targets. Most criminals don’t have a death wish.

          There have been two occasions in my own family when the presence of a handgun averted potential disaster. In both instances the gun was never aimed at a person and no shot was fired.

          • Mocus says:

            Where in the Constitution does it say a citizen must own a firearm? As far as I can see it only says you cannot be denied owning one. If a citizen can Constitutionally be required to own a firearm, why can’t they also be required to buy insurance per Obama care? Make up your mind. Do you want to follow the Constitution or make up rules as you go along?

            • Brad says:

              Mocus, that is the Federal government. It is obvious that you did not read the article that I posted. It was an ordinance enacted in the city of Kennesaw, GA. And no, the federal government has no authority to require a citizen to buy anything, period. That is why the supreme court said that it is a tax, regardless of what Pres. Obama says. But states and municipalities operate under different rules/laws and guidelines. If you do not want to abide by those rules/laws, you do not have to live there. It is a little bit more difficult to change your citizenship, would you not agree?

              • Mocus says:

                Does the Kennesaw ordinance require everyone, including felons, mental defectives, etc. to have firearms in their homes? I’m not saying it’s not a good idea if the ordinance takes that into account by excluding those individuals from the requirement, quite the contrary, but is it Constitutional? The overriding principle in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence is that the government (meaning any government within its jurisdiction) shall do only what the Constitution says it can do.. Kennesawans cannot be denied the right to bear arms per the IIA, but the IIA does not require them to do so. It seems to me that when the Kennesaw government takes property, i.e. causes its citizens to “take” their money and purchase firearms, just compensation is warranted. If it is not given, then it must also be okay for all of to be required to purchase insurance per Obama carewithout being given just compensation. What if firearms in Kennesaw homes as a result of the ordinance are used by unauthorized persons to commit crimes? Would the municipality of Kennesaw be liable? I just have to wonder if the ordinance covers all these points.

                • Brad says:

                  I really am not trying to be a smart alec, but you should read the article in its entirety, the article says (with certain exceptions). And again, states and municipalities have different sets of rules that they go by. Remember the argument about “RomneyCare” up in MA? They tried to use that to prove that Obamacare was legal, but the Supreme Court stated that states operate under different rules, and that federal money was not involved, therefore it was legal and Constitutional. The Constitution is the minimum rule that they can go by. This ordinance has been in effect since 1982, and I am sure with the way liberals are, if it were unconstitutional they would have tried to make an example out of them. Liberals do not believe in “live and let live”, they want everyone to abide by their rules.

                  The difference between a liberal and a conservative… If a conservative doesn’t like guns, they wont buy one. If a liberal doesn’t like guns, they want them outlawed for everyone!!!

                  Also, I am not a Constitutional lawyer and as such could only offer you my opinion. And your statement that “The overriding principle in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence is that the government (meaning any government within its jurisdiction) shall do only what the Constitution says it can do..” is not correct either. If that were the case, local governments could not operate. There are literally tens of thousands of laws written throughout the United States that go well beyond the Constitution, such as speed limits, trespassing laws, shoplifting, I have even seen some that say you cannot carry ice cream in your trouser pockets. As ridiculous as that may be, they are still enforceable laws. The Constitution states laws of liberty and guarantees, and limits government from being too intrusive, but does not keep state and local municipalities from “regulating” where necessary.

            • obama is making it impossible to not make up laws as you go, after all thats the way he opperates isn’t it?


    • Billie Arens says:

      You are wrong sir, more guns, less deaths. Guns are used to kill less often than you would expect. People are killed in so many other ways. Having, maintaining and being educated in gun safety is enough. In states, known for gun ownership, crime appears to be lower because of it. You probably hear about gangs shooting each other on the streets, in states where jobs are scarce and education is not important. Countries that give up their freedoms are asking for chaos.

  27. Bill Parks says:

    I have already warned my son and daughter that if Congress pass a gun ban (which I don’t expect) or Obama issues an executive order banning guns (which I do expect) there is a very strong chance that I will go to bed one night a free man and wake up the next mornig a felon. I will never give up my guns and I will fight to the death defending that right for all Americans.

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  29. The liberals commenting here and defending Islamic world conquest is evidence that their hatred for our Constitutional Republic is paramount.
    They would love for America to be defeated as long as Conservatives are defeated. They somehow are deluded to believe Islam will be their friends if they betray our Constitution. It is that mindset that makes them (liberals) more dangerous than our foreign enemies! Out-voting them will never solve the problem for a free world to survive. They must be stripped of citizenship and expelled from the U.S.A….si vis pacem, para bellum!

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  31. R Mensendike says:

    I believe in guns but weapons that will fire X amount of bullets that could kill a population in a few seconds in a mall, school, church, YMCA or any place of personal safe gathering should be banned from the public or heavily licensed through hours of schooling and phychiatric testing with a lengthy waiting period after the testing (3-6months).

    • Jambo says:

      Insanity is relative , most of Washington’s meglo maniacs are completely insane in the opinion of many. What you suggest is as insane as the people who write new laws on top of the existing 1000’s thinking this time it can stop bad things from happening.

    • Oswald Bastable says:

      Cars kill more people yearly in the US than guns, cars that travel faster than 2 mph should be banned…no, wait, even at 2 mph, a child could be killed Let’s ban all cars…do it for the children.. Medical mistakes kill more people yearly in the US than guns, doctors that do more than say “take two asprin and call me in the morning” should be banned…no, wait, some people are allergic to asprin and could die. Let’s ban all doctors. Swimming pools kill more people yearly in the US than guns, let’s regulate all swimming pools so they can only have 1 foot of water…no, wait, it’s said you can drown in two inches of water. Let’s regulate pools so they can only contain 1 inch of water…no, wait, even an infant could drown in 1 inch of water. Let’s ban all swimming pools…do it for the children!!!!

      Logic is a real bitch, ain’t it R Mensendike?

      • Jim Chandler says:

        Isn’t it awful how uncommon common sense is. Great post Oswald.

      • carrn says:

        Oswald,I am in awe of your skills. You need a larger stage.If half of the pundits could debate as well, or hell state a position as well as you we’d be much better off. I wouldn’t be stringing wire and fill’en sand bags around my bunkers! well…just kidd’en bout that last part…sorta…kinda…well no not really kidd’en at all!

        • Moogie says:

          You know what, I do apologize. I am speaking from my own personal experience with the Catholic Church . This post was in a humanist site. Though I am not a true humanist, I identify with their collective concerns. Despite the fact that this is a cathlolic publication , I it is publicly available. I think people who like the country to be secular or are non theists have every right to be hurt and frustrated by an article that blames a complex financial disaster on secularism. How can anybody really not expect to be criticized back? I sometimes feel like I straddle two worlds.. I identify with the political and humanitarian beliefs of most humanists. I am deeply troubled by the political and financial power churches have been given. Then on the other hand, I believe in god. So I try to be a liaison to those who are humanists and try to help the them see your point of view. I ave never equated morality with religiosity. There is plenty of evidence that would give serious doubt to that claim. I don’t believe that intelligence, morality, contribution to society is more prevalent in one group than another. Then there are the dozens of people who don’t believe in what their church is teaching but are afraid. Wouldn’t any church want their parishioners to be there of their own will and not out if fear? Again, I respect your restraint in notbeing angry at me. I don’t know you, you do t know . In a way, I want to warn the churches that though they aren’t democracies, they live in a democratic countries. There is a very strong movement to remove the tax exempt status from many churches because they are so involved in the political process. I think in a way that would be a huge shame because many churches do so much good. But many are harmful and hurtful, even though they are well intended. I still am deeply troubled that George bush granted immunity to the Vatican during a the father Oliver o, Grady case. The catholic church has a sovereign state, but the coverups and crimes occurred in our country. No religious organization that has committed a crime against u.s. law should be Able o circumvent our legal system. My problems lie with the actions of the catholic power structure, not necessarily with its people. But I keep hearing its people defend indefensible actions and it makes e very sad. The Catholic Church has taken a big hit in terms of its reputation, and it cannot be blamed on people just being randomly anti catholic.

      • Moogie says:

        Cars and pools are regulated. You are more likely to die in a car accident because we drive more than we shoot guns, so the statistical probability go up. A car , when used safely, is not a deadly weapon. A guns sole purpose is to kill or maim. Yes, there are lots of things that can be used but guns seem to be the weapon of choice for self defense, hunting’ because the minimal amount of effort, and their efficiency.

        • Oswald Bastable says:

          As of 2009, there were approximately 250 million vehicles (cars, trucks, buses, etc.) in the US, and 270 million firearms. So what does that say about the safety ratio of one to another?

          By the by, those 270 million firearms shot billions of rounds off safely that year…target shooting, skeet, competitions, hunting, etc.

          Shall i go in to the proportion of pools to firearms regarding safety, as well?

          • Moogie says:

            I will try to find a link to the article I just read, but the CDC stopped collecting public health statistics on gun deaths in the late 90s as the NRA pressured to decreased funding for it. I a imagine there were a number of reasons for this, one of which is that the numbers could be not the answe gun rights activists want to here. Well collected data and good methodology has no political ideology. Interestingly, a poll came out that said that only 6 percent of scientists identify as republicans now, an almost 20 percent reduction over about 8 years. Someone commented here today that most scientists in the UK are communists. There s a big difference between someone identifying themselves communists and the hyperbolic way it’s used on boards like this, which is anyone to the left of the right fringe. I don’t know if the conservatives on this board identify as republicans but its become known as the anti science party. most of the elected republicans have a very poor grasp of the scientific method, data analyss etc.

            • Oswald Bastable says:

              All of which has what to do with the preceding?

              But, if you’re looking for current statistic on gun deaths, try the FBI or DOJ.

              • madre41596 says:

                What that post has to do with this whole blog us that the far right use bad data to make points. So you think you have zinged everybody with your glorious poss when the data about the effectiveness of gun regulations does not exist for either side to use.

          • Moogie says:

            After what I read today , I don’t think I will believe your statistics.

            • Oswald Bastable says:

              Nor, apparently, are you motivated enough to do the research to refute or confirm them.

              Why is it liberals are so lazy when it comes to veracity. Is it because lies are so much a part of your life that any challenge to them is just too frightening?

              • Moogie says:

                Oswald, the reason I don’t have statistics is stated above. The NRA PAC pressured the government to stop funding public health research on gun related violence so there is not reliable statistics to research. You paint an awfully big brush about liberals and being lazy? How many self identifed liberals do you know ? also note h that the statistics in ths board ave no citations. If you mean, should I conduct m own research? Actually, its funny that you should mention that. I am working on a masters in public health. I have been researching statistics on gun violence. There is a dearth of peer reviewed studies to reference. It’s funny this characterization o liberals hat keeps coming p… So quick to call us lazy on one hand, and then on the other and, the research shows lw levels of unemployment in people who identify as liberal. I am incredibly proud o come from a long line if liberals. My grandfather is a ww iI vet. My dad and my uncles served in Vietnam. They were all conscientious objectors which means they served as medics in te infantry. Carrying a gun o kill a human was against our religious beliefs. So they were willing to die for our country but not kill for it. Again, I work with disabled people, many of whom are veterans. When I come to their houses, r they come o their clinics it doesn’t seem to matter so much I them that I am a liberal who believes in non violence.

                • Oswald Bastable says:

                  The CDC isn’t the only supplier of statistics. Your argument is a non sequitur.

                  • Moogie says:

                    No, it’s non a non sequitur. The NRA used their political clout to up press information. Please see the amendment before the 2nd one. No, it’s not the only source of statistics but so far the no gun regs folks seem to only celebrate the veracity of the statistics that the like. I vent been given any links to tas with nt reference to how the study was conducted. Again why doesn’t the NRA conduct quality peer reviewed research to refute the Nejm study that simply having a gun in the household increases the likelihood of homicide of a family member?

                  • Oswald Bastable says:

                    Care to try that again…in English this time please? Your comments are so disjointed and misspelled that i can’t make out what you’re trying to say. Possibly try before you start drinking this time.

  32. Kevin Zueger says:

    To all existing and ex-law enforcement or military or any concerned patriot please check out the oathkeepers.com site. They speak alot about the same founding principles and the “OATH” to refuse to obey any and all illegal orders..(laws against freedoms). Remember the dying word from William Wallace…..FREEDOM!!!

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  34. Underdog says:

    “And the truth shall make you free.” Liberty is God’s gift to man. We have a duty to support and protect it. And as a nation, our defense against tyranny need not be based upon an actual physical attack. St. Thomas Aquinas tells us that a threat of imminent violence or even a grave injury to a people’s reputation is enough injury to make retaliation a defensive war, not an offensive one. When it comes time, I don’t think there will be any question about whether it is time to act. And we do not need to wait until another Boston Massacre occurs to defend our God-given rights.

    • Jim Chandler says:

      I will be there. I am done with being scared of my govt. I have already made peace with myself. I will not bend, I will not register, and I sure will not turn in.. The line has been drawn in the sand. If these morons in D.C. are willing to turn this country into another Syria, I am ready.
      I will protect my Constitution from ALL enemies, foreign and domestic.

  35. Scott Thomas says:

    I totally agree, this administration has over steped it’s boundaries. Obama, In my opinion disregards our constitution. He should be impeached.

    • Mocus says:

      Obana could not be impeached right now. The votes aren’t there.The best way to get rid of Obama is to show that he does not qualify for the Presidency before the time fixed for the beginning of the next term, but the window of opportunity for doing it is closing fast:
      Amendment XX – … if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President …,

  36. Frank Chisowsky says:

    Yeah. And Fuck Piers Morgan. They proved him way wrong in this video about stats that I hope is incredibly viral as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ6RVyqTaYs

    The fact is, everyone wants to compare us to other countries as a way to “prove” that we should ban certain weapons. Why the hell should we compare ourselves to them? We are a different country. If anyone wants to go live in any of the countries they are compared to, no one is holding a “gun” to their head to prevent that. In fact, if you are so liberal that you want my guns I would rather you go there anyway. Do us all a favor, don’t change my country, go to one that agrees with your views. Take your kids who you mistakenly believe are in incredibly danger every day because of gun-owning veterans like me and get the fuck out of my America.

  37. Jason says:

    The government is full of lying cheating and stealing syndical assholes that don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground. Like uncle Ted nuggent said you can try to take my guns from my cold dead hands but my fans will get them before you guns right assholes will

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  39. Eric says:

    Ah Dean. If only you were so important, if only the United States Government actually saw you as such a significant threat that “they” would have to come out to your home and take your weapons. You should be less concerned about losing your rights and more concerned about your delusions of grandeur. Let’s be real for a moment: you are a blogger, one among millions sitting behind a computer screen. No one’s coming to your house, Dean. Sure, you might be on some government list somewhere for the things you’ve written, but so are hundreds of thousands of others in this country, because of what they have searched on Google, or whether they ever followed the group “Anonymous” on Twitter. I’m going to go ahead and guess you are pretty far down that list. And unless you start bragging to your neighbors about a massive stockpile of weapons, that is where you will stay.

    And I’m glad. Glad for you (and any family that you have living with you), because if this wildly hypothetically situation you imagine came to pass, it would be the worst kind of idiocy for you to engage in some kind of gun battle over someone taking your weapons. How do you see this going down? You aren’t in a television show. There won’t be triumphant music playing in the background. This is real life. People die, horribly, in such situations. Innocent people get caught in the crossfire. And if you survive, you go to jail, having accomplished…what? A blurb on the 6 pm news cast?

    Far, far worse, however, is how you so casually talk about the right to kill those people who you insist are coming for your guns. May I ask, who do you imagine them to be? You never speak in specific terms. Is it the local police? Someone else? And when you talk about “they” showing up, do you consider that these are people who are doing their job, who are there to serve and protect, and who have friends and family? It’s disturbing to think that you find your guns to be more valuable than human life. I can’t help but wonder if you know Christ. I hope so. I hope He begins to speak to your heart. Because this, what you have written, is tragic.

    • Brad says:

      Eric, Oh my, my, my. Where to begin. I want to say so much but I will not waste my time on you. Your post, in my humble opinion, does not leave room to convince you of your folly. You seem so stuck in your delusional world that no amount of logic or facts presented will change your mind. And that is your right.

      If the founders of our nation thought like you, there would still be a Union Jack flying over our nation. Thank God we do have patriots that are willing to stand up against the tyranny of government run amok.

      And since you bring up Christ, how was He looked upon when He challenged the religious leaders of His time? You have just lumped Him in with the rest of us. He was considered a rebel and a rabble rouser. Did not Peter carry a sword, even up to the time of Jesus’ arrest on the Mount of Olives. He even used it. Yes, Christ did tell him to put it away, and even said that those that live by the sword will die by it. But you have to take everything in context. Did not God also issue orders to kill? Yes He did.

      You should be thanking people like us who are willing to put our lives on the line to secure the freedom that our founding fathers fought and died for.

      You enjoy the freedoms secured by people like us without taking any of the risk. There is a name for people like you. Actually there are many names. A few that come to mind are leach, coward, hypocrite and many, many more.

    • Oswald Bastable says:

      Several things I see here Eric, that are good to know about you.

      You do not approve of people standing up for their constitutional rights.
      You like denigrating people who do.
      You approve of government lists and people being on them.
      You do not (or choose not to) recognize tyranny in the denial of constitutional rights.
      You support they type of gestapo actions of those who would deny others their rights.

      Have I missed anything?

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  41. Lane C. Russell says:

    This is one of the clearest, most well-reasoned articles I have seen written on this subject. Unfortunately, our government is packed with career politicians who care for nothing but the acquisition and retention of power; a corrupt Supreme Court that cares nothing for upholding the law, but is willing to legislate from the bench; and people like President Obama and Senator Feinstein, who care nothing for the Constitution they have sworn to uphold and defend; but worship rather their own egos. The time for discussion is done. Trying to reason with gun haters will not bring them to our side; it will only make them think that they have a legitimate viewpoint while they try to pass gun restrictions by hook or by crook. I am no longer open for discussion on this point. The Second Amendment, by virtue of English grammar, demonstrates that we as citizens of the United States have an innate, God-given right to keep and carry deadly weapons for defense of self, home, and Country; and that the Federal government cannot have any legal authority to disarm the people. The Constitution was not written in Hebrew or Greek, but in English; the meaning was meant to be simple and easily understood; the Constitution therefore does not require “interpretation;” just read the bloody thing, and do what it tells you, as you swore to do upon taking office! Pursuant to the Tenth Amendment, the various States and local governments do have the Constitutional authority to restrict the owndership, carry, display, and trade of firearms; so I say let them have at it–they are the *only ones* who have such authority. But the phrase “Federal Firearms Legislation” is unconstitutional, and should be rendered null and void.

  42. Mark says:

    Oswald and all the rest,

    The British are coming. This year our glorious Sovereign Queen Elizabeth the Second celebrated her Diamond Jubilee. London hosted the Olympics. We had a party. After skydiving in to open the Olympics QE2 made a speech in which she, in coded terms, proposed to secure back out colonies. She already claims title to 1/6 of the planet and has her eye on Amrica for her Grandson William. The project is called King Billyland.
    The project is in 5 parts.
    1. Take over the media. Piers Morgan has a dual role, as well as brainwashing your politicians in left wing ideology he is helping to disarm the populace. Our actors are winning support from your vocal celebrities, this was endorsed by the success of Brits Damien Lewis and Daniel Day-Lewis (playing a President no less!). Music will be dominated by North London girl Adele.
    2.Stealth invasion. As you are aware the numerous immigrants to your country transit though London Heathrow (never wondered why?) and receive final orders. They will rest as sleepers gaining jobs in your fast food outlets. On D-Day they will refuse to work and the starvation of the populace wil begin.
    3. Financial. This phase is complete and ensured that our Eastern buddies the Chinese own all your money.
    4. Academia. A recent poll nearly flushed this out stating that the majority of your research scientists are communists. I wonder what the outcome of the gun control research will be.?
    5. Political. This was achieved in phase 1 and 3 supported by scientific papers. Obama et al are dangling on the string of the media and paid for by the Chinese.

    D-Day is when the Executive Order is signed and the Feds come for your guns.

    Post invasion you may be granted the freedom to live as the Queens subjects, please see Canada.

    Carpe Diem

    Arise Sir Barak – Prince of King Billyland.

    • Oswald Bastable says:

      So…you’re saying Prince Charles is going to come over, blow snot on us all, and bore us to death with rambling nonsensical environmental prams?

      Bring IT!


  43. Gerry Nordmann says:

    I printed a copy of this because it just might come to this. It’s sad that this country is being defeated from within by it’s well fed and educated citizens who should know better.
    A Korean War Vet

  44. Mark says:

    Thank you, the Queen appreciates your support.
    Hurrah for King Billyland!

    • Oswald Bastable says:

      Mark, thank you for being a gaggle of mincing little poffers, giving up self-defense and offering your jugulars to the wolves.

      It will be a fine island once we finish the job begun in 1776 and take it from you, shipping all you lot off to live with your idealogical cousins, the foul, and most foreign, French.

  45. Moogie says:

    I don’t know if anyone will answer me but there have been multiple references to “the” Muslim brotherhood. So, is it my understanding that you believe all Muslims to be enemies if the u.s? It’s it all Muslims.. The ones in India, Africa, Europe, Latin America, Canada and Asia? Because 33 percent of the worlds population identify as Muslim. So, are you guys talking about all of them? I watched a grainy video about president Obama, who has never lied about his father being Muslim and that he had no specific religious orientation until he converted to Christianity? Someone suggested I go talk to all my liberal friends. Well, first off, my friends are not all liberals. I provided the link on my FB friends. Not one person, including my relatives who re serious gun enthusiasts, thought that the best debate ever was going on . No one has ever told me that try think I hate the constitution. I have mentioned that I work with severely disabled veterans with brain injuries. I find the commitment to the glory of the military seems to wane when this brave men and women need tax money to pay for their care. Parades and yellow ribbons don’t pat for their bills.

    • Moogie stated that 33% of the population of the world is muslim. “NOT SO” There are approx. 1.2 billion muslims. What is population of the world? 6 billion give or take.

      • Moogie says:

        I incorrectly stated a statistic ( you van choose to jeer if you want, I don think I a sign of weakness if admit an error) according to Wikipedia, there are 1.6 million self identified Muslims in the world. That currently constitutes 25 percent of the worlds population. It s expected to increase by 5 to 10 percent over the next 10 years. To answer someone’s question, there are 1.6 million self identified Muslims in the world 1 percent of that is 1.6 million. What is the relevance of that? Please reference any statements where I implied all Muslims are bad? I was simply trying o get information on the Muslim brotherhood that Keeps getting referenced . Still no straight answer.

    • And also Moogie, you need to quit believing every lying word that comes out of obama’s mouth.

      • Moogie says:

        I don’t believe every word that comes out of any politicians mouth. I am not even that big of a fan of us. His economic polices are about on par with Reagens. I just believe the constant insinuation about his lineage and religion are pathetic. So, when mrs. Dunham went into labor in Hawaii, she supposedly flew to Kenya for superior medical care? Someone mentioned that time s running out on getting the proof that Obama is in eligible for office. The NRA has so much money, surely it could get in to find the ” smoking gun”.

    • Oswald Bastable says:

      The muslim thing is moogie/madre’s latest deflection attempt Thom…pay it no mind. Those who have no discernible logic or intellect attempt to derail topics by throwing red herrings out like confetti at a parade.

      Treat it as you would confetti at a parade and wipe it from your boot.

      • Thanks for the good advice, Oswald. I had a few minutes to spare. That is quite a list.

        • Oswald Bastable says:

          It should also be noted that the moogie/madre is still using the two posting names interchangeably. It would appear that she still can’t master the simple art of entering the same nick and email address in every post…but we should apparently cut her a break because she’s challenged, you know, not being dishonest when entering simple terms and phrases in their appointed places…apparently that square peg just won’t fit in that round hole…and it tasks her..

      • Moogie says:

        If its a deflection, why can’t you humor me and answer ? Muslim references are all over ths lst? Why s that a deflection. I am beginning to think you are not as have. You keep leaning on the other guy and try and pat me on the head. I just am trying to get information. I am pretty much tending here on my own, getting called unamerican, a communist, a namby namby libera. My whole point of being here is just trying to understand the point if view of the portion of our country believes there’s should be absolutely no regulations on guns.

        • Oswald Bastable says:

          Because it is not germane and has nothing to do with this blog. As to muslim references all over this list, I’ve enumerated the ones on this page, though you’ve added one more taking your total to 10. On the 1st page of this blog there are none, on the 3rd page, 4, two of them yours, which takes your total to 12, on the 4th page, there are none.

          If you are interested in the question I suggest you take it to a blog or forum where such things are being discussed, because here, it’s nothing but a racist and race baiting distraction from the subject at hand.

    • http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/fashion-shows/ << preceeding is a list of obama's lies it should only take a half hr. to read them all, if your a fast reader!!!!

  46. Jim Ives says:

    Again only from my cold dead hands.

  47. Rex White says:

    Obamanation is the worst president in history. I lost two uncles in world war two and they would roll over in their grave if they saw how far the liberals have gone. I guess I will die if they try to take my guns.It is better to die than to live like a slave. You have the second ammendment right to fight to keep your guns. Nancy pelosei and Diane finestein andChuckey schumer have guns. They are hipocrits. Take their body guards and guns away from them. Come and try to take mine. If we all fight together we will prevale. Rex White.

  48. Pingback: If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight? on GodSponge's Blog

  49. Jim says:


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